DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Quarterbacks taking advantage of protection rules and a proposed penalty for abuse of it.

I got to thinking about this when Lamar Jackson was whining about some of the hits he had taken this past year. It dawned on me that some of those protections should be gone when a QB leaves the pocket, because to me, at that point, they aren't much different strategically than a RB.

Then recently I see a college QB, I think the Pitt QB, fakes as if he is going to slide after a 15-yard gain, the D slows down & backs off, then to goes around them and scores a long TD. Now I don't think the defender should be permitted to rock him helmet to helmet or anything, but he is no longer a QB.

To me, that play made we wonder about a penalty on the QB faking a slide to gain additional yards. Not sure what you would call but it makes me think of a punt returner who would call for a fair catch, then start running after he catches it. I believe that case might be delay of game, but I have no problem with an unsportsmanlike type of call.

The rule was put in to protect you and you flaunt it against a defensive player who has his hands tied.

This and my idea of 2 different levels of PI, flagrant & "inadvertent" to eliminate the prayers at the end of game in the end zone resulting in a cheap PI call to get it at the one yard line are changes I could go for.

Just my 2 cents.

They used to kill QBs before some of those protections. I know it seems like overkill, but you don't want to see your QB targeted by human missiles, it's not fun.

So many rule changes have been made because the money has gotten so big. For decades it didn't seem to matter to the owners. Then millions turned into billions and everything changed.

I say just don't allow the QB to advance the ball by running.

They changed all the other rules to make the game close to flag football, this is the only thing missing. You still get fun dynamic plays of Jackson/Mahomes scrambling around to buy extra time, but remove the need for the defense to really clober them.

You could also do something like "Eligible runner" like they do with receivers. If you want your QB to be able to run, you must take away an RB's eligibility.

I think this could be an easy one to fix:

Play is over where the QB began the slide/fake.
No penalty necessary. Same number of yards as if the slide had been completed.

Then a guy like Lamar says I wasn't sliding, I was planting my feet for a jump cut. We've all seen him break ankles on defense, so how would you resolve that?

I wouldn't have to, if the the rule was already established. Lamar would just have to accept it and adapt like all players when the rules change.

And even though it was cheap, I loved the college QB doing that. It was hilarious.

I need to go chase that one down.
Might like to see it my dang self.

Michael Vick did this once when he was headed toward the sidelines like he was going to jog out of bounds and all of the defenders pulled up when he got a few feet from the sidelines and he planted his foot and cut up field for more yardage.

It is pretty much the definition of "unsportsmanlike conduct" to take a rule that was designed to protect you and fake it to your advantage.

I don't want to take away plays that can be made by an athlete like Lamar Jackson by not allowing them to run, and I know this type of fake slide isn't very common, that's why it became a story when the Pitt Qb did it.. but if it were to become more common, some QB, who is actually sliding, is going to get popped and end up paying the price for all of them

I am not suggesting a defensive player be able to kill the QB, just don't take a rule put in for your protection, and skirt it to take advantage.

I like this too but my distrust of officials makes me leery to give them one more really subjective call. Heck, they can't get holding right on Myles.

Never said you were. Just making an observation of what could happen if they did something like you suggested. And not that it's a bad idea, because I didn't really give it a ton of thought, before posting the first thing that your post made me question.

Yeah- I didn't think of it that way.
Their track record doesn't exactly instill confidence, does it?

We are making it too hard. Once QB's run past the LOS, treat them for what they are, a runningback.

If we need protections, give it for the first 5 yards of the run past the LOS. After that, play football.

Along these lines, these (and really any) rule changes going forward MUST make execution on the field simpler vs more complex. If we're being fair, in order to start holding officiating crews accountable, we need to make their job easier instead of harder.

A non-biased, well-trained AI could make better calls in real time than any human ever could. But there is probably some penalty that could be called on almost every play, and an AI would call them all. But an AI, would damn sure take some fans' skepticism out of calling the games.

I still think it would be a much better game if the NFL cut the number of refs from 7 on field refs to 4-5.

Joe vs Terry

Like when Joe Turkey Jones ended Bradshaw.

You have to protect the QB's. The league doesn't want to see 2nd and 3rd string QB's all playing by the end of the season. Because of Covid we've seen what can happen to teams that have to play those 2nd and 3rd stringers. Some of those backups may end up throwing 3 or 4 INT's in one game!!!

Sorry, didn't mean to start anything. I actually think it may protect the QB more with the change since the D will know the QB can't try to outsmart the situation.

They can still be protected. If a QB tries a slick move like that, whistle is blown, flag thrown for unsportsmanlike and QB doesn't get hit. My only fear is giving refs one more very subjective call in their arsenal.

So, Who besides someone on this board is proposing a rule change? Is someone on a rules committee proposing a change, and I haven't seen?

I think it would be a much better game if----

If runners were not allowed to cross the line of scrimmage outside of the original pocket / tackle box, (penalty 5 yards from previous, and automatic 4th down).

If an individual player were not allowed to attempt more than 3 forward passes per game, penalty would be loss of down return to line of scrimmage and player ejected for that game.

If field goal attempts longer than 52 yards would be outawed, considered a turnover of possession and no points. (that's the 42 yd line at the spot of the kick)

and If, on occasion, games were played with only 4th downs, every down is always 4th down, or a kickoff.

I think if the quarterback stands on his head and farts blue nickels, he should be allowed 3 more passes.

I think if a QB is virtuous and without sin for an entire week he should be fitted with an electronic force field that makes him immune to being tackled or having his passes intercepted. That's what I'd do.

I think if in 100 years, history takes a look back at this generation of football, (aside from the all biographically human body parts,) the biggest question they'll have is why do teams today wish to use only one quarterback during a game, when about 5-8 quarterbacks per team will prove so much better.

I think limiting it to and favoring blue nickels shows prejudice against every other color of nickel. That's not good.

Also, it seems to me that once something solid makes an appearance - whether blue, red, or wooden - you have taken it a step beyond flatulation. But that could be just me ...

QB is a ball carrier until he comes to a complete stop, at which point he still needs to be touched to be down, like any other runner. Don't want to take a big hit? Go down sooner.
Simple, and would slow down this running QB trend as they would have to consider the consequences of calling a QB run play.

A defensive player should not have to play more cautiously because it's the QB and there might be a flag.

While where at it, the stupidity of a hand coming down on the QBs helmet when they are trying to deflect a throw is absurd. These guys walk up and bang helmets after plays, a hand smacking a helmet isn't going to do anything.

I think the board would be better if we didn't have as many goofs around here....but hey, what do I know?

Can a mod delete this thread? I was just questioning a rule that creates a huge disadvantage because QBs want special treatment. I did not intend to cause such irritation to those board members who were offended.

You thought people were touchy before? Now we're out of the playoffs...

First, I don't think QBs wanted special treatment. I don't think they lobbied for a lot of the rules that are in place to protect them, I think the NFL decided, as others have pointed out, that nobody wants to watch a bunch of games late in the year with back-up QBs..

Second, it's not special to QBs, any RB, WR, or any other person carrying the ball is allowed to slide and give themselves up. WRs do it once in a while when they catch a ball in traffic, usually they dive forward headfirst but they are still giving themselves up. RBs do it sometimes late in games to stay in bounds to keep the clock running...