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This is a printer friendly version of an article from www.washingtontimes.com


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Article published Aug 30, 2007
Katrina collects a bundle


August 30, 2007


By Audrey Hudson and Sean Lengell - The flow of federal dollars to the Gulf Coast two years after Hurricanes Katrina and Rita devastated the region already exceeds what the U.S. spent on the Marshall Plan to rebuild Europe after World War II.

President Bush and Congress have committed more than $127 billion in resources and tax relief for the region — significantly more than inflation-adjusted $107.6 billion directed to 16 countries in Europe between 1947 and 1951.

"We dumped billions into Europe, but it was prepared to deal with it and used it to create a viable new economy," said Fred L. Smith Jr., president of the Competitive Enterprise Institute.

"At the moment, Louisiana's economy is very regulated and politicized; it's like pushing stones uphill while molasses flows downhill," Mr. Smith said. "The challenge is to make sure aid to Louisiana is matched or surpassed by their own self-help efforts, the need to incentivize and liberalize its economy and political rules."

Residents in New Orleans and the Mississippi towns hardest hit by the storms have generally expressed gratitude for the outpouring of help from across the nation, but remain frustrated by the delays in rebuilding their communities.

"I took a lot of heat from people who really expect the federal government to not just send help, but to make sure the help gets to the people who need it," said Rep. Bennie Thompson, Mississippi Democrat and chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee after returning last night from a town meeting in New Orleans on the second anniversary of Katrina.

"It's nice for people to come down here, but there is some resentment against all of the Washington people who come down here and give lip service, and go back to Washington and do nothing."

More than $96 billion has been distributed or is currently available to states to rebuild houses and schools, repair damaged infrastructure and to provide shelter for hurricane victims, among other uses.

Washington also provided about $13 billion in tax relief, and has spent more than $7 billion to get New Orleans area's levees back to pre-storm levels. Another $7 billion will be spent on the flood-protection system.

"We felt like we were fortunate that our request [for funding] was heard," said Bryan McDonald, Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour's director of hurricane recovery and renewal.

Still, the rebuilding process has gone slower than anticipated.

"We had hoped to be much farther along," said Mr. McDonald. "There is still plenty of recovery to be done."

Many federally funded, state-administered recovery programs have yet to be fully implemented. And New Orleans' struggle to define and fund plans for neighborhood redevelopment have shaken confidence about the city's short-term future.

New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin favors a "market-driven" recovery of the city, while critics say he hasn't made the tough decisions necessary to get planning for the city's future moving into high gear.

Some in Louisiana have accused the federal government of giving Mississippi a disproportionate share of aid compared with Louisiana.

"This community is grateful for the help. But Louisiana's losses were dramatically higher than any other state's and thus deserving of greater compensation," said an editorial in yesterday's Times-Picayune of New Orleans.

"In reality, Mississippi has gotten a larger share of federal aid."

The paper said the city's reputation for financial shenanigans may have contributed to the disparity, but that it should not be penalized for its past.

But the city's reputation remains a concern.

The Homeland Security Inspector General office reported to Congress earlier this month it had uncovered nearly $400 million in questionable or unsupported costs associated with the recovery effort.

The Senate Homeland Security Committee conducted an eight-month investigation that "uncovered massive and unacceptable fraud, waste and abuse of taxpayer dollars" including "$1 billion in improper and potentially fraudulent payments" by the Federal Emergency Management Agency and "millions of dollars in payments were paid in the name of individuals incarcerated in prisons."

The Justice Department says 764 persons nationwide have been arrested on charges of fraud in 680 cases in the recovery efforts. The U.S. Attorney's Office Southern District of Mississippi leads the nation with about 150 people charged.

The cases include a wide array of charges including bribery, making false claims with federal and state agencies, and even attempts to defraud the Red Cross — charities have donated nearly $4 billion, according to the Chronicle of Philanthropy.

"Pretty much every program that provides disaster relief, we're seeing fraud," said David R. Dugas, a Justice spokesman with the Middle District of Louisiana, where about 125 hurricane-fraud charges have been reported — the second most in the country.

Mr. Thompson's committee has held oversight hearings on waste and fraud and says future hearings will focus more on contract fraud than public-assistance fraud.

"Very little attention is being paid to contract fraud; the only answers we get are that [the inspector general] is looking at everything," Mr. Thompson said.

The Bush administration has promised to continue to partner with local and state governments to finish rebuilding New Orleans — and to improve ways to protect the city from flooding.

"I'm confident that the people of New Orleans understand and recognize that they want to be more responsible and be smart in how they rebuild," said Don Powell, federal coordinator for Gulf Coast Rebuilding, on Tuesday. "But I don't have to tell you about the economic importance of New Orleans and what the port is to the entire nation."


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Two points-

a) It's very sad that in situations such as this, people take advantage and line their own pockets with cash. When you're talking about upwards of 120 BILLION dollars, people are easily able to take a hundred thousand here, a few grand here, etc....and it won't be missed, until it gets to the time where it is to be spent after it has been allocated. What an accounting nightmare this would be! I can't even begin to fathom how they would funnel the money to where it needs to be utilized first....


b) Rebuilding a neighborhood where a dozen or so houses were destroyed by a tornado would take some time; just imagine how long it will take to rebuild areas this massive that were affected by the storm. I understand the people's frustration, but something on such a grand scale such as this is not going to be corrected in a short period of time. We thought we were in a 5 year re-building plan with the Browns a couple of times now.........these people are in that for a MINIMUM.

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I agree... people will rail against the federal government in these cases for allowing fraud to happen... the feds rely on the state, who relys on the communities, who relies on individuals to do the right thing... You can only have so many checks and balances before you impede the whole system....

It's a massive catch-22... we want you to be careful and diligent and not let our money be wasted, but, oh by the way, we need the money RIGHT NOW.


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Hurricane Andrew devastated Homestead, Florida in '92.

If I recall it was almost 10 years before they got life somewhat back to normal there. They can't possibly expect the metropolitan area of New Orleans to be rebuilt in 2.


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Quote:

They can't possibly expect the metropolitan area of New Orleans to be rebuilt in 2.



Sadly, they can EXPECT it....


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There is a nice article in this months National Geographic that makes for an interesting read. Most top scientists agree that there is no protecting N.O. from mother nature and that even a category 2 hurricane would submerge the city again. One scientist even advocated moving the entire city elswhere because of the lack of protection and the rising sea levels. I realize the history of the city but sooner rather than later this city will be under water and will stay that way. IMO the whole rebuilding of this city is a huge waste of time and money.

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So without bringing race into the equation...as there were poor blacks in Coastal Mississippi...why does it appear that the N.O. recovery is less far along than the other areas having mid range population?

Are we looking at N.O. as an entity who has always been developed by outside interests and lacks the ability to pull off a major rebuilding task even with the initial funds to begin?


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A little different take . I flew ( and got stranded ) in Houston Wed. Night . Continental put me up in a hotel close to the Airport . The area is called " Greenpoint " . The hotel folks told me not to walk off the property after dark as it was not safe . The Cops call the area " Gunpoint "! Story goes , after Katrina 250000 folks from The Big Easy fled to Houston .Sadly , the criminal element took a liking to Houston and staid !

Should have emailed Toad !

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Quote:

A little different take . I flew ( and got stranded ) in Houston Wed. Night . Continental put me up in a hotel close to the Airport . The area is called " Greenpoint " . The hotel folks told me not to walk off the property after dark as it was not safe . The Cops call the area " Gunpoint "! Story goes , after Katrina 250000 folks from The Big Easy fled to Houston .Sadly , the criminal element took a liking to Houston and staid !

Should have emailed Toad !




There were 11 murders in N.O. last week. The police and politicians are totally corrupt. Who do you turn the moey over to and why would you?

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Quote:

President Bush and Congress have committed more than $127 billion in resources and tax relief for the region — significantly more than inflation-adjusted $107.6 billion directed to 16 countries in Europe between 1947 and 1951.




I'm not going to bother doing the math,but according to those figures,that would mean the inflation rate all totaled from 1951 untill now has been less than 20%. It raised more than that in half of the 70's!


You first need to come up with a figure within SOME realm of possibility to predicate this premise upon. Those figures? A twelve year old can see how flawed those are.


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Quote:

You first need to come up with a figure within SOME realm of possibility to predicate this premise upon




You need to work on your reading comprehension.
Go back and re-read it.


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Quote:

Quote:

You first need to come up with a figure within SOME realm of possibility to predicate this premise upon




You need to work on your reading comprehension.
Go back and re-read it.




You're asking an AWFUL lot there......don't you know it's easier to just type out endless babble about the same rhetoric over and over?

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What ARE you talking about?

I've read it. I don't dispute many of the points in the article if that's what you're getting at. But The very beginning of this thing and those figures are preposterous.

Saying that pumping in 120 billion into New Orleans now,is more money ,after adjusting for inflation that 107.6 billion in Europe in 1951? That's just flat out BS.

Or are you trying to say that's even close to accurate?

I understand N. Orleans is corrupt. I understand there will be lots of money scammed and scimmed. I'm not disputing that what so ever.

But these figures they're tossing out comparing it to Europe during 1947-1951? That's just goofy right there.


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Show any government inflation figures from 1951 untill now that show this even in the realm of possibilty. It isn't and you can't. Because it's impossible. Probably by more than 120 billion dollars.

You're getting pretty desperate on this one. I'm quite sure that these figures are EXTREMLY flawed. And you are too.


At that juncture,it's not me doing the babbling.


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Ok, here, I'll explain it for you, here is what you quoted and called garbage:

Quote:

President Bush and Congress have committed more than $127 billion in resources and tax relief for the region - significantly more than inflation-adjusted $107.6 billion directed to 16 countries in Europe between 1947 and 1951.





Now, it is saying that all of the money pumped into Europe between 1947-1951, when adjusted for inflation to now, is "only" $107.6 Billion dollars. It is NOT saying that we pumped in $107.6 Billion back in that timeframe.
Now, If we have pumped in $127 Billion into New Orleans, I would have to go with my 3rd Grade math teacher's teachings and say that Yes, it IS more money than we pumped into Europe in the post-WW2 era.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled delusions.


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120 billion is more than 107 billion.....*scratching head*

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I would still need to see the figures they're using to arrive at those figures. And stand on the beief that they're totally innacurate.

BTW- What ever happenned to that "Czar" that Bush appointed to "cut through all the red tape"? I noticed that too was mentioned as a "problem".

But if the feds are expecting New Orleans to suddenly act "above board" after their long record of corruption,how is that having any sense of realistic expectations?

One thing I think we can agree on,is that's just not going to happen. And I think about everybody knew that going into this mess.


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I appreciate your involvement in the discussion as it appears that when Pit wants to disprove a premise he misinterprets the facts of the same premise.

The actual funding in this stated phase of the Marshall Plan most likely wasn't much more than $40 billion back in the 40s and early 50s.

Don't worry though...he'll restate the unknown and defend the unproven as the obvious and question why no one but liberal thinkers can understand his POV!.


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No,it's just rather odd.

You can see the validity of 90% of what an article says. But God help you if you don't swallow it hook.line and sinker.


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Quote:

I would still need to see the figures they're using to arrive at those figures. And stand on the beief that they're totally innacurate.




Translation of Pit-ese to English:
"Holy Smokes & Jeepers! You are right, I DID read that 100% completely wrong, omg, Thanks for clearing that up for me PPE. Man, I guess I get to eat a nice slice of humble pie on this one. Shucks."



Quote:

BTW- What ever happenned to that "Czar" that Bush appointed to "cut through all the red tape"? I noticed that too was mentioned as a "problem".

But if the feds are expecting New Orleans to suddenly act "above board" after their long record of corruption,how is that having any sense of realistic expectations?




Don't know, don't care... it was never any part of any discussion with me on this. I only chimed in to point out that you were completely bass ackward and illegitimately arguing a bogus pint as if it was valid in any way.


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Let's get back to important stuff here......like about this coinflip ya see?!

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Quote:

A little different take . I flew ( and got stranded ) in Houston Wed. Night . Continental put me up in a hotel close to the Airport . The area is called " Greenpoint " . The hotel folks told me not to walk off the property after dark as it was not safe . The Cops call the area " Gunpoint "! Story goes , after Katrina 250000 folks from The Big Easy fled to Houston .Sadly , the criminal element took a liking to Houston and staid !

Should have emailed Toad !




Toad's like three hours away - I'm 20 min

But that's exactly true... our crime rate sky rocketed after Katrina... violent crimes are really up as well... not saying it's just all NO people because there are a lot of Houstonians who were performing crimes against people from New Orleans... overall though crime has been worse over the last two years.


<><

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Quote:

"Holy Smokes & Jeepers! You are right, I DID read that 100% completely wrong, omg, Thanks for clearing that up for me PPE. Man, I guess I get to eat a nice slice of humble pie on this one. Shucks."



If it helps, the Marshall plan actually received in the neighborhood of $14 billion if what I saw is correct.. which seems about right and would equate to about $100+ billion today...


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Quote:

Let's get back to important stuff here......like about this coinflip ya see?!




This is totaly unrelated to the thread topic.




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"Holy Smokes & Jeepers! You are right, I DID read that 100% completely wrong, omg, Thanks for clearing that up for me PPE. Man, I guess I get to eat a nice slice of humble pie on this one. Shucks."




Sorry,I really am.

I didn't see the "ass kissing required" sign posted beside the sand box.


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So, you accuse another poster of getting desperate in their argument then when being show that it was YOU that was completely mistaken, you then come back with dismissing FACTS with the lamest "I don't believe it unless they prove their math to me".

Now, I have fun "translating" your weak statement which was nothing short of a denial of reality and as a result now I'm some egomaniac that needs to be bowed to?

You really are a piece of... work.


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Quote:

You really are a piece of... work.




I'll take that in the complimentary tone in which I'm sure it was intended.


Yes,I certainly did take it out of context. But yes,I'd still like to see the math.

You see,I've been in the construction trade for a long time. The products,supplies,fuel,equipment and basic building materials that are needed to build buildings and do construction work have skyrocketed FAR faster than the rate of inflation. And that is a fact! And by the time this work is actually completed,will have risen even more.

I mean simply trying to "restore" a building now costs two to three times as much as restoring it did just 20-25 years ago,much less rebuilding it.

So are you suggesting that we simply look at "the standard rate of inflation" from 1947 - 51 untill today to get an "accurate" picture to see if these figures add up? Or look at the inflation rate of the "actual products needed" to construct and pay the labor to build these buildings during that same time frame to get an "accurate picture"?

I believe if you expect to get an accurate picture of how realistic a portrayel this "estimate is" you would need to see "how they arrived at the figure" to do that. I don't see how that's so unrealistic.

But hey,you'll have that from time to time.


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