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Last edited by BrowniePoints; 08/14/07 06:35 PM.
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Ummmm.....Alba (or someone new)?
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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HR by Grady in his first AB in the 3rd spot! He's there for good!
Joe Thomas made Justin Timberlake change his name. He didn't want wusses to have the same initials...
Dawg Talker since 3/26/2005...
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Rookie
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It's just amazing how far south our offense has gone 
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i swear, peralta and barfield are worthless with a bat in their hands. can anyone on this team BUNT...damn
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ridiculous
chris freaking gomez gets a leadoff double in the 9th, jhonny peralta doesn't even attempt a bunt, and whiffs, franklin gutierrez whiffs
i will burn down jacobs field if they get to the playoffs, get a situation like that, and don't lay down the bunt...
and now borowski blows it...
pathetic.
dumb baseball.
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you want to talk about worthless?
let's talk about joe borowski
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Last edited by BrowniePoints; 08/14/07 10:14 PM.
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This season is turning into a disaster. I dont care what anyone says at this point. They have showed zero ability on offense to believe this wont stop. For goodness sake, even when this team was winning there was no identity. Its turning into a joke. I am so pissed right now I can hardly see. This is happening night after night, week after week. If Wedge gets to keep his job if this continues through the rest of this season I will lose a lot of respect for Shapiro. There comes a point and time when the blame has to be put on manager. Bottom line, he is not getting the best or even close to the best out of these guys
I heart winning
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someone needs fired, damn looks like joblow has finally gotten tired, we need to find a guy with a lot better stuff to be a playoff closer. Tho i really don't think we're going to make it this year. this team is in more than a slump, they are in perpetual suckiness
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if the tribe does not make the playoffs, you can look at this game, and know why...
you lay down the bunt, you don't screw around, he wasn't even trying to put the ball in play, he was swinging for the game winning double, you're jhonny peralta, dude, you are not david ortiz
leadoff double in the ninth? you give up the at bat, you can win the game without even having to beat the pitcher, it's simple baseball? i hope the media pounds wedge after this one
reporter: so why did you not lay down the bunt?
wedge: because jhonny peralta is not a very good bunter
reporter: why isn't jhonny peralta a good bunter?
wedge: uh, because i don't teach fundamentals
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yeah i cannot believe that we have players that don't know how to bunt, or even an attempt..hell even if he didn't get a good one down, chances are he gets gomez to 3rd atleast. I really can't see wedge/shelton being here next year..they just don't get it, this is a test to get them through the hard times, they failed. bunting is the only thing to do in that situation, nothing else
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Not that I don't agree with your premise (Peralta bunting), but the next two guys still struck out, so it didn't much matter if Gomez was on 2nd or 3rd.
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This is my final straw with Borowski..the guy has failed, and we just keep letting him fail for us. From this point on, I want to see Rafeal Betancourt, or Rafeal Perez in the 9th inning. No more JoeBo time for me. Were going to have to do the same thing we did with Cabrera before he got the boot. We can only afford to pitch him when were up by 5-6 runs. And as of now, being up by 5-6 runs seems impossible. Not to be the Mr. Negative here, but I've had it. Let's pray we can win the last game vs. Tigers and sweep the Tampa Bay freaking Devil Rays. Atleast we have a shot against the Rays.  Borowski, you suck. 
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Quote:
Not that I don't agree with your premise (Peralta bunting), but the next two guys still struck out, so it didn't much matter if Gomez was on 2nd or 3rd.
i think you lay down the bunt, you don't screw around, but even if you aren't going to bunt, why wouldn't you try and just put the ball in play to the right side?
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![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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BTW, Victor Martinez looked like he nearly fainted in the dugout after striking out with some really weak swings in the 8th. He looks exhausted ... don't be surprised if we see Shoppach a lot more in the near future. The wheels are coming off on this season, it seems ...
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Can the hitting coach.
We fired Eddie Murray when we hit like caca. We were about tops in the league early on, and now we can't a damn thing.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Quote:
why wouldn't you try and just put the ball in play to the right side?
I understand that you're frustrated, but if you ever played ball then you know that "putting the ball in play to the right side" (or at all) is a lot easier to say than it is to do when a guy is throwing 98 mph fastballs and mixing in 85 mph change-ups. That said, this is the Majors and I expect somebody to come through with a clutch hit when you get a lead-off double.
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Can the hitting coach.
We fired Eddie Murray when we hit like caca. We were about tops in the league early on, and now we can't a damn thing.
we're striking out way too much, and in my opinon, they're swining at the first pitch too much
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Quote:
Quote:
why wouldn't you try and just put the ball in play to the right side?
I understand that you're frustrated, but if you ever played ball then you know that "putting the ball in play to the right side" (or at all) is a lot easier to say than it is to do when a guy is throwing 98 mph fastballs and mixing in 85 mph change-ups. That said, this is the Majors and I expect somebody to come through with a clutch hit when you get a lead-off double.
i played baseball
if your hitter isn't good enough to put it into play to the right side, you lay down the bunt and put the runner 90 feet from winning the game...
manning said it over and over during the telecast...
it's not frustration, it's bad baseball which is causing frustration...
it's not even knowing about baseball, or having played it, it's about common sense.
look at some of the past world series winners, the cardinals, white sox, angels, marlins... all of those teams knew how to manufacture runs when they really needed them...
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which is my biggest beef with wedge, to me, he leaves alot of runs on the field. He consistently gets outcoached. Never would have given him an extension..yeah, you are right about the bunting, like i said, there is no other option with no outs and a guy on 2nd, you bunt to put him on 3rd and hope the next 3 can get him home
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you would think for a guy that goes by book so much would go by the book about what you do when you have the leadoff man get a double in the ninth inning of a tie game against a team you're currently tied with for the division in the month of august...
fausto carmona needs to be the stopper tomorrow, you can't let detroit leave cleveland with a lead in the division, you stop the bleeding now and let detroit deal with the yankees...
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Quote:
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Can the hitting coach.
We fired Eddie Murray when we hit like caca. We were about tops in the league early on, and now we can't a damn thing.
we're striking out way too much, and in my opinon, they're swining at the first pitch too much
Except Hafner, who takes the first pitch strike pretty much every at bat that I see of him.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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yeah, normally i would like those odds with the tigers playing the yankees and us the devil rays, but, sheesh lately i don't know. If we were playing even respectable ball since the ASB, we'd be up 6 games. Bottom line, we miss playoffs, NO WAY is wedge here next year. maybe grover will get the itch again??
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Quote:
you bunt to put him on 3rd and hope the next 3 can get him home.
It would only be the next two; the guy who bunted made an out. In this case, even if Peralta sacrifice bunted successfully, Gutierrez and Barfield followed with whiffs. This team has bigger problems than inability to bunt.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Can the hitting coach.
We fired Eddie Murray when we hit like caca. We were about tops in the league early on, and now we can't a damn thing.
we're striking out way too much, and in my opinon, they're swining at the first pitch too much
Except Hafner, who takes the first pitch strike pretty much every at bat that I see of him.
is he ever going to come around? he doesn't seem comfortable at the plate at all...
it's gotta be really tough to be a DH in a slump... i would imagine if you played the field, that you could maybe get yourself going with a great defensive play, to get that spark...
for a while it seemed like he was looking for the home run and nothing but the home run, and now he's gotten a bit better, but he's still not the hafner that gets into that zone where you can't even pitch to him...
if the tribe is going to make the playoffs, they really need him to wake up, when he goes, everyone else goes...
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Quote:
Quote:
you bunt to put him on 3rd and hope the next 3 can get him home.
It would only be the next two; the guy who bunted made an out. In this case, even if Peralta sacrifice bunted successfully, Gutierrez and Barfield followed with whiffs. This team has bigger problems than inability to bunt.
yeah they do have bigger problems, its starts with the fundamentals, if you can't do those well, chances are you are weak top to bottom. Wedge misuses players too..example, pinch running gomez for garko, the only decent clutch hitter we had, we could have left garko alone, then pinch hit gomez for josh autoout barfield
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Quote:
Quote:
you bunt to put him on 3rd and hope the next 3 can get him home.
It would only be the next two; the guy who bunted made an out. In this case, even if Peralta sacrifice bunted successfully, Gutierrez and Barfield followed with whiffs. This team has bigger problems than inability to bunt.
while gutierrez and barfield both whiffed after peralta did, their entire approach to their respective at-bats changes if the runner is 90 feet from home, because while you are trying to argue not bunting with a guy on second, no outs, you cannot argue doing anything but getting a fly ball deep enough to win the game...
but i am in total agreement that they have problems beyond bunting...
the entire philosophy of this team right now is an absolute joke...
i wonder if paul byrd will go after borowski in the clubhouse...
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I don't have a good feeling about this team ... starting to get that "only in Cleveland' feeling ... you know what I mean - waiting for the ridiculous defeat. I guess I've had the rug pulled out from under me too many times in the last 40 years. I try not to be negative, but dammit, when is our time?
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You are correct, Wedge was the reason we lost the game. Yes, the hitters have been awful and need to step up, but in this game he topped it off by putting them in positions to fail. He made 3 huge mistakes that cost us a win: 1. Letting Barfield bat BOTH times late in the game with 2 outs. The kid has no confidence up there right now, I would have rather seen anyone on our team up there but him. And then the 2 biggest... 2. Obviously, Peralta not bunting. He should clearly be able to lay down a bunt, but that wasn't even my main problem with it. I haven't seen anyone share this opinion yet, but I thought the clear move Wedge should have made was to pinch hit Asdrubal Cabrera for him. We've seen the kid bunt already, he easily could have gotten the runner to 3rd. He is a better fielder than Peralta anyway, so he would have been an upgrade in the field too. I thought this was the move that really killed us. They did follow up with strike outs, but might have had a different approach just needing a fly ball. 3. Borowski instead of Perez. There is a lefty in Granderson up that has been owned by a lefty all day. You have Perez, who has been lights out against everybody lately. Borowski has notoriously been awful in non-save situations all year, and will have to face the top of the order with Ordonez(A-Rod quality this year... we know what happened there) hitting if anyone gets on. And you do WHAT???  Sad to watch. I have lost complete confidence in him after this one. 
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While tonight was pretty frustrating, I don't really subscribe to the doomsday theory many of you are. We're ONE game out of first place. ONE. We have played TERRIBLE baseball, baseball so bad that we should realistically be a good 6-7 games out of first (at-least) but we still have a great shot to win the division. All teams go through slumps.....a 30 game window of below .500 baseball isn't the determining factor in a baseball season.
As for jumping on Wedge, I don't see why you give up the out? If 3 guys can't single in the winning run, is that really a reflection on the manager? Especially when they all strike out? Wedge doesn't swing the bats. Throw all the decision making out the window. When a guy leads off the inning with a double and you can't score .... you don't deserve to win, period.
Detroit just got lucky tonight. They dodged an absolute bullet when Granderson made that incredible catch. It was just really, really unlucky. 8 or 9 times out of 10 the CF does not make that catch and we're not even having this conversation.
Finally, Brorowski should get one more chance. If he doesn't like VERY sharp, he should get benched. Betancourt moves to closer, Perez goes to the setup man and someone else inherits the 7th inning. We really can't blow anymore close games if we want to hang in the race.
BUT, be positive, Detroit has to go to NY for 4 games.......hopefully the Yankees bats will stay hot and they'll take 3 of 4...or better yet sweep Detroit. If we win tomorrow we'll split the two game set and be back to square one. A lot of baseball left.......no reason in having a heart attack over one game.
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yeah it is on the manager to a pretty large extent, he has to put the personnel on the field and make the decisions on what who does to be able to manufacture runs or put your hitters in rbi situations, wedge has failed to do that. like lebron said, i would hit cabrera for peralta too, i can't stand peralta and i really don't think he is a major league caliber SS, but thats moot. another one was pinch running gomez for garko, i would have let garko run, then pinch hit gomez for barfield.
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Your right sort of about not blaming Wedge but whats with not being able to play a dime of small ball. Why can't we bunt him over and then tag him in on a fly. Thats bad philosophy and teaching IMO and that comes from Wedge. Just make contact for crying out loud. Choke up... shorten your swing and make contact.
"I'm a mog. Half man, half dog. I'm my own best friend."
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Quote:
As for jumping on Wedge, I don't see why you give up the out? If 3 guys can't single in the winning run, is that really a reflection on the manager? Especially when they all strike out? Wedge doesn't swing the bats. Throw all the decision making out the window. When a guy leads off the inning with a double and you can't score .... you don't deserve to win, period.
The Tribe isn't hitting the ball, this will come as no surprise to anybody.. so when you aren't hitting the ball, you do SOMETHING.. but not Wedge, he sits and just expects somebody to hit the ball. You have to accept that it's not likely to happen. So you HAVE TO BUNT. Get the guy on 3rd.. hell with a man on second and nobody out in the bottom of the last a good team could bunt him to third and squeeze him home and the freakin' game is over.. .NOT WEDGE. He sits and waits for the big hit.. well it AIN'T COMING... You bunt him to third, that way, he scores on a wild pitch, he scores on an infield error, he scores on a fly ball... you have to do everything you can to increase your odds when your team is struggling and that's NOT what he does... he sits and waits for the slumps to end and just keeps swinging away... That's NOT how you work your team out of a slump.
yebat' Putin
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"I'm a mog. Half man, half dog. I'm my own best friend."
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Here was Wedge's comment about not bunting with Peralta: "Wedge said he didn't ask Peralta to bunt Gomez to third because he was the Tribe's best chance to deliver the run." PD Link
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