DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum "The Plan"

Nobody expected the Browns to be good this year. However, few, if anybody, expected us to be this bad. I think many had us winning 3-5. I think the coaches and FO probably had an invisible target of 5-7. That would show their plan was indeed working. MKC did several broadcasts where she said as such as did Labbe and Pluto.

Now that we are 0-13 and I only see one potential win left (Chicago, but they beat up Cincy who in turn beat us real bad...twice!). That means the plan clearly didn't work. They missed out on some key players - namely Wentz and then Watson (who knows about Mahomes). We allowed key players to leave and we were not able to sign others. Yes, we bagged a great O-line that should be gelling in '18. But, we spent a lot of picks on 2nd and 3rd rate WRs that have not produced. Nassib hasn't been the guy I certainly hoped he would be. And, there are others. I think I read something like 50+ players currently on our team & PS are Sashi guys? Is that right? Nevertheless, whatever the exact numbers are, it is a lot.

So, in my opinion I think 2018 has to be a year that proves a lot. It also has to be a year that brings the fans back. Because, let's be honest...it was very apparent that last Sunday against GB there were A LOT of GB fans. Even from the tv over here in Portland, Oregon (2000+ miles away) I could hear a lot of cheering when GB scored. The fans have given up and it has to be worrying for the Haslams and blatantly apparent to Dorsey. The team has to hit several home runs this offseason. We have to be aggressive and smart in FA and we have to be aggressive and smart in the draft. Those 2016 players that we keep need to come out and ball it in '18 and the '17 and '18 picks need to step it up a whole 'nother gear. This FO and the coaches and the Haslams need to approach 2018 with the intent that they will win 8+ games and be potential contenders for the AFCN. We fell far below expectations this year and it has cost us and them. The goal has to be set high....we can't be proud or accepting of 5-11, 6-10. We need to, at the very least, hit .500, but even then I think we have to be swift and immediate with the turn around just as KC were when Dorsey arrived. Haslam can no longer hold press conferences saying "be patient". Time is now up and there is no better time than now than for Dorsey to nail it.

Regarding Hue...a lot falls on him to now prove what he can do with the players Dorsey gives him. If we are still squandering for wins or scraping 3-13 or 4-12 next year I honestly don't see him coming back in '19.

Hue needs to be at least 8-8 next year to come back. Surely, there is no way Haslam would allow an 8-40 coach to continue when fresh off a losing season, but a .500 season would bring enough positives to remain.

JMHO.

If we went 8-8 with Hue, there's no way I'd get rid of him. That's a vast improvement from this season. I would see no reason to factor the combined 2016 & 2017 records into my decision at that point.

With all due respect (to you and others that have posted it), I'm sick of hearing we missed out on player A or player B, etc.. The fact is there are 250ish players in each draft and every team misses out on 240ish. Yes, we didn't draft Watson or Wentz, or Brady or Manning. As well, who says that any of those players would be good as a Browns QB?

I agree on 2018, and felt that was the case all along (though I did expect a few wins this year). To a point, Sashi got a raw deal, but I'll take Dorsey any day over him to run my team.

Regarding Hue coming back, lets tak free agents first - Gordon and Meder are RFA, and Crowell is UFA. I'm not sure anyone else is really worth talking about much, maybe Hogan?. Keeping Gordon and Meder will be easy, I think Crowell is gone. So, not much of a loss overall. What if Joe leaves? The draft and incoming free agency will be key to adding more talent - instead of replacing players we've cut or lost. This is the first time in 3 years we can say that (I assume). This all being said, it again tells me 2018 was the plan all along. I think 3-4 wins would be the minimum that Hue needs to stay around, but I think 5-6 wins would pretty much guarantee it.

It's not dumb. Hue's future will absolutely be determined by wins. Winning is the only thing that can really solidify his position as head coach moving forward.

Players can improve without it translating to wins. For example, Duke Johnson has solidified his position moving forward.

Dorsey won't be fired after one year, and Haslam won't fire himself. So wins don't matter in terms of their employment.

Hue, on the other hand, he needs wins. Haslam won't accept another season of moral victories, even if you will.

I bet there's an acceptable win/loss or improvement threshold that has been or will be determined.

Let's look at next year's opponents:

HOME

Pittsburgh
Baltimore
Cincinnati
Atlanta
Carolina
Kansas City
LA Chargers
NY Jets


AWAY
Pittsburgh
Baltimore
Cincinnati
Denver
Oakland
Tampa Bay
New Orleans
Indianapolis

Teams change from season to season but looking at that schedule on Dec. 12th it sure looks tougher then this years. We have some work to do no doubt.

That schedule looks brutal.

I think the expectations should and will revolve around the moves that are made during the off season. Will we sign a FA QB to steady the QB position for the short haul? If we do I think winning between 5-8 games should be expected. If we go with Kizer or a first round rookie as our starter, I don't believe that same goal stands.

People can say anything they wish about Kizer but you simply can't ignore history if you choose to be taken seriously. You only need to look at the history of the NFL to see that the odds of a mid second round QB aren't good. You only need to look at the success rate of the fourth QB taken in drafts as a guide of the thoughts of decision makers.

The thought process on what should be expected depends heavily on our talent level. I believe if Haslam felt the talent level was progressing as it should be, Sashi would still be here. So despite what posters on the board believe about our talent level, the decision Haslam made shows he feels our bad record lies far more with the talent level of our team than the coaching. Now posters can disagree with their opinions of Hue, but the only one that really matters here is the opinion of Haslam and he let that opinion be known in firing Sashi and keeping Hue. Of course I'm aware that there are some posters who disagree with Haslam but I take the fact they are only speculating at what's going on and have no idea with what is actually happening in Berea as evidence that I really shouldn't take them seriously.

I don't believe this team holds the talent level that some of our posters do.

So from every appearance it seems to me that Haslam believes that Hue doesn't have the talent to win with. As such, I think even four or five wins here next year would cause Hue to be safe.

The plan is there is no plan. When Jimmy Haslam is in charge you don't know what to expect.

@PIT..

History says that if you are on the other side of Haslams fence,you are most probably right and he is wrong...

My view is that Sachi indeed got some talent but failed on his approach of thinking he could pass on franchise talent level by trading down. This game is about missmatches, and you need special talent to succeed.

In the end, I think Sachi did his job well, specially protecting his HC and taking the heat for the decisions that were made,buying time for the re-build.

Regarding the whole money ball strategy, I think 2 years is probably enough evidence to see if it has merits or it is a complete fail.

Just goo back and see what the numbers told about the most talented players in this 2 drafts, If DePodesta failed in more than say 50%, then its time scrap the whole moneyball thing.

If DePodesta was more right than wrong, and it was just bad luck we got all the lemons, then maybe we should let him try to reach the gold in this draft...

We have also had injury problems. Yes, I know, every team has injuries, it's p[art of the game, but when you are going through a tear down/rebuild as extensive as this, every injury is magnified. Losing Collins, Ogbah, Coleman, Garret and Thomas for significant portions of the season has put a crimp in expectations on a team already thin, at best, not to mention one game injuries to other starters throughout the season.

I expect Dorsey to fill more gaps, build some depth, and find a serviceable QB. This includes Receivers, Defensive backs and other solid players. Two drafts, even with signing OL Free Agent help this year, only supplied half a team. Next Year should be better, even with the brutal schedule.

We ARE "that bad". We have lost 28 games and won 1. This year alone we have won 0 and lost 13. To say we "could have won 3-5" is ridiculous fantasy speculation that doesn't help. The fact is...we haven't won those 3-5 games. So, if your point is that you are happy with this sub-par record or settling with mediocrity, then fair enough. But, my point is...the record is what it is. This FO have to go all in with the mentality that we win at least 8 games next year. Our coaches need to go all in and coach them to the best of their abilities. I believe the latter will happen as thus far we are getting effort from the players. They clearly like Hue. But, liking Hue and winning for Hue are different and the former will only get us so far.

I totally agree, eo. I trust that the new FO will continue with "The Plan" as from what I have seen to date, it addresses long term sustainability. However, I do not trust Hue, as a HC cannot afford to look too far into the future as his goal of achieving wins is much more short-term...

You don't get to assign the win total. Thank God.

Despite what many think, Sashi and the previous regime have put this franchise in remarkable shape. Turning the Browns around at this point should be a fairly easy endeavor.

If I'm GM of this franchise, there are two moves I make for instant success, 1) Fire Hue, 2) Draft Baker Mayfield.


That should be the new plan and I'm seeing signs that this could be the outcome in the off-season, so I'm cautiously optimistic.

Browns will be Browns..

1)Keep Hue
2)Cut all players

That's the new plan

Sounds a lot like the old plan to me

1)Hire Hue
2)Cut all players

That was the old plan