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When does a player become a runner? I'm asking for Peppers.

So you can hit Big Ben on the head when ever you want,providing he's not in a throwing motion, the moment he tucks the ball he becomes a runner...

You can use that in any play, so targeting the head is now OK....

Not only Watt wasn't tackling him, but the QB wasn't even running...

Stupid explanation to justify the unjustifiable...

When he's not a a Stealer....

Apparently if you are not a Stealer you don't even have to run to be a runner, just tuck the ball and that's it..

I guess they are right, since its impossible for a Stealer to suffer brain damages they think it applies to all teams.

He gets flushed forward in the pocket, he pulls the ball down and runs 3 or 4 steps forward. When the helmet to helmet occurs his arms are down....You can't throw the ball from that position. Once he started moving to scramble he goes from a defenseless QB in the act of throwing to a runner.

That is the rule. Has nothing to do with anything else.

I get the "rivalry" thoughts. But that is a rule. If they would have thrown the flag....I would not have been surprised. But I also think it would have just thrown controversy in the other direction.

But given that we really don't know what a catch is week to week it would not have surprised me

Watt Sack

Different situation ... the refs in our game deemed he led with his helmet ...

It says in the article if u lead with your helmet its still a penalty REGARDLESS if your a runner or not ... u cant EVER lead with your helmet ....

In the stilers play ... the refs deemed he didn’t lead with his helmet... hence the difference ....

The refs said that Peppers hit a "defenseless receiver."

Bro, I know you watched the gif, but I watched the play several times on an awesome TV and he led w/his damn shoulder.

You know I am not Peppers' biggest fan, but that was a good hit. Also, the receiver had taken three steps.

Rules exist for something, and in this case is to protect players.

Helmets should be for protection, not for "attacking" or tackling other players.

Watt used nothing but his helmet on that so called tackle, he could have injured himself severely and the QB.

I can concede that there was no intention (while in the case of Peppers I can see the intention there), but you cannot let this type of plays get a pass, that's why the rule is there...

I honestly don't believe that you are ok with spearheading Ben when he tucks the ball to protect himself on a sack.... That would be a very stupid rule...

I do agree with you that this "defenseless player" designation is about as well-understood as what is a catch.

But more than that, I find it ridiculous that it's ever ok to hit a guy in the helmet with your helmet. The Watt hit on Hundley looks like he just missed his target and ended up glancing the helmet, so maybe that helped with giving him the benefit of the doubt. I remember back to the Harrison hit on Cribbs. Harrison speared Cribbs in the head, and the morons calling the game said that that's a legal hit. You'll never convince me that it's a good rule when you can lower the crown of your helmet and launch yourself into the side of a guys head, at any point of the play, and it's legal.

Browns fans are bent outta shape because our safety hit a guy with his shoulder after the receiver had taken a couple steps with the ball and their helmets barely grazed each other. Somehow the clown reffing the game pulled a "defenseless receiver" penalty out of his butt.

This is what keeps getting missed. Everyone is talking about it "really was" helmet to helmet, but that was not even the call.

Sometimes i wonder if u even read what i say ... for u .. i’ll say it again ...

In my first post before I saw the gif ... i said it was a bad call ... based off the ONE ANGLE WE ALL SAW even on our crappy TV’s ... ...

Then i saw the gif from a DIFFERENT ANGLE ... thats when i started to defend them ...

I tried to explain to ya’all THREE IMPORTANT THINGS ...

1. Its all about ANGLES ... the angle we saw during the game was from an ANGLE where u could see his shoulder hit first ...

NO REF had that ANGLE bro .. NONE of them .. think about where the officials are located ...

The line judge is on the LOS and floats down field as the play develops ... hes still on the SIDLEINE ... witch means on that play all he saw was asses and elbows .. he was STRAIGHLINED ... all he saw was the back of the WR ... because of his ANGLE ...

The side judge who is deep down the sideline and the back judge who is deep in the middle of the field ... from there ANGLE they couldn’t see HIS SHOULDER hit a 1/2 second first ... they simply couldn’t see it because of their ANGLE ...

THINK about their ANGLE ... they saw what looked like helmet to helmet .... then they saw the head snap ... SAFETY SAFETY SAFETY ...

2. Sometimes things get mis communicated on the field ... it HAPPENS ...

I dont know if thats what happened here ... when Hue said how it was explained to him that it was helmet to helmet ... my first questions was ... DID THEY TELL HIM THAT ON THE FIELD RIGHT AFTER THE PLAY and before they got to look at the tape or was if after the game was over ...

If it was on the field right after the play .. it was a MIS COMMUNICATION ... Refs are human also and they make mistakes ... if it was after they saw the tape ... it was an ASS COVERING ..

We don’t know that ....

3. And this is all the REFS CARE ABOUT .... they don’t care about what the coaches think .. what the owners, players or fans think ... they cafe what their SUPERVISOR thinks ... he’s all that matters to them ...

And i 100% GAURANTEE u and everyone else ... when the two officials that either made the call or could have made the call ... they got a GREAT GRADE on that call ... SAFETY SAFETY SAFETY ... they look at ALL ANGLES they have .. they get the tv video from all the tv cameras that are there ... the 1st one they look at is the camera with the best shot of the ANGLE the officials had on the field ... the back judge had about the same angle as the gif ... they may have had a better angle on the side judge ... not sure on that ... only local camera crew was there .. not near as many cameras as when its a nationally telivesed game ...

They look at that film ... the HEAD SNAPPED ... they got a good grade on that one ....

For what it's worth, I'm starting to float back into "bad call" territory.

sk8ter, in a different thread, put it really well. We don't even know what a catch is these days... so how can we agree on hits like this?

BS call period.