DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Bill vs Hue

I was just working on one of my paintings and I had NFL Network on. Belichick was deflecting things away from himself. He kept saying "it's a player's game," and other such similar comments.

He mentioned his old high school coach who said "players win games and coaches lose games." Bill said "there is a lot of truth to that."

Compare that to the comments that Hue has been making. It's always all about Hue. "Trust me." "I am going to get this right." "I will find the right QB."

The most accomplished coach in the history of the NFL gives credit to the players and a guy who has a career record of 9 and 23 acts like he is the guy w/all the answers.

I have been defending Hue. I defended him during the season in the Postgame Thoughts threads when people said he was not managing the games well, or how he didn't run it enough, and I defended him about calling his own plays. I defended him on other threads when someone called him a "punk." I have defended him when posters said things that he "hurt Cody" or that "he rushed RGIII back too early."

Well, Hue kinda blew it in my world. He threw Horton under the bus. His offense was no better than Horton's D, and they sure as hell didn't lose as many players due to cuts due to salary/age issues. He then has Pep bail on him and I think I know why. The explanations for his leaving don't make Hue or the Brown's ownership/FO look good.

So Hue..........screw you. You just lost an ally due to your arrogance and power play actions. Next year, the dawgs are going to be nipping on your fat ass, and I am not going to say a word to defend you. [Well, I might.........but, it's going to take a lot of stupidity on the part of the posters to change my mind. Then again, that isn't a stretch. LOL]

One message for Hue.................We is Bigger than Me!!!

This is an extreme overreaction.

I'm curious...

Hue has shown the ability to connect with his players, to get the most out of them.

Isn't this more of Hue sheltering the players, but with the understanding that he knows they aren't good but tried hard? And that maybe he didn't have the correct coaches, but the buck stops with him?

See, that's the thing about being an NFL head coach. When you win, it's all about the team and everything is a-ok. But when you are losing, it's all about how the coach sucks, all the players sucks, everyone is stupid, blah blah blah.

Let me ask this question: if Bill was in this same situation as Hue, do we think that he would still be saying the same thing? Do we think that he wouldn't make staff changes?

I don't know, this seems to be all media [censored]. I think we all know that it's all about talent and very little about head coaching.

The guy who just replaced Horton is really good friends with Bill and Saban...

Whatever, man.

Players LOVE the dude. And NO I don't have a LINK. Lol Eo.

Just look at everything the SR Bowl players are saying after never even meeting him until this week.

I'm telling you right now Vers. The reputation that guys like Hue, Saunders and Williams have is going to bring elite talent to Cleveland.

And it's gonna start with FA this year. Watch and ENJOY it for once.

TRUST ME. 😘

I am not so sure. While I might not be as far along as Vers, I get the same vibe.

I am totally convinced that Kessler was Hue's pick. Last year before the draft he was saying the two things he requires in a QB are vision and accuracy. Last week he said his two requirements are vision and arm talent.

I am not so sure he is the best guy to pick our QB.

The media wasn't involved in this. I was just watching and listening to BB's comments. He kept talking about how it's a player's game. Even after winning the Super Bowl, one of his players is hugging him and congratulating him and Bill says something like "it's all about the players."

It got me to thinking that Hue is very different. He keeps talking about himself. "I'm going to get it fixed." There is no doubt that I will find..." Things like that.

One of the major reasons why Hue was fired in Oakland is because of his well-publicized power play in the organization.

Again, I get the feeling it is too much me and now enough we.

Just an opinion and it's not going to change by people saying stuff like "This is an extreme over reaction" or "Whatever man."

I heard the same crap earlier in the year when I said that coaches would be fired and that Horton would be the first to go. I heard it when I criticized Farmer and they dysfunction w/in the organization a few years ago.

People can get as haughty and ugly as they want, but I think my opinion has more substance than "we are finally doing things right."

Two different teams and two totally different situations. When your team is playing in the superbowl giving credit to the players is what most coaches would do.

Let me ask you this on a team that just went 1-15 and Hue said similar things as BB like "it's all about the players". Sounds like he is blaming everyone but himself for the teams woes.

Sounds to me like he is putting all the responsibility on himself, I'm not sure what else he is supposed to say, just my opinion.

Sticking strictly to the topic --- I think Hue is doing it exactly right and exactly as Bill would do in the same situation.

When the team WINS - you give the PLAYERS the credit. (Hue hasn't had a chance to do that yet, my gut says he will because he is a players coach as others have pointed out).

When the team LOSES you put all the blame/fault/pressure on the COACH.

Does anyone want the HC to come out after the 1-15 season and say "this is all on the players, they have to play better and win more" ?? Personally if Bill ever coached a 1-15 team - I think he would absolutely be saying it was on him and suggesting he needed to turn things around.... Is Hue a little more rah-rah in his style of speaking ? Sure (who the heck isn't?) - but that's the basic nuts and bolts of it to me.

I think it's a small sample size, and an anomaly as we have one chronically losing season for Hue to talk about and for fans to judge his demeanor on. Bill is one of the very best HC in history. Easier to be magnanimous from that position - lets see Hue coach a .500 team or better and see how much he talks up the players versus saying it's all him. My bet is that with wins comes the credit to the players, with loses he continues to say it's all up to him.

That's a good argument and it makes sense.

On the other hand, there is no denying Hue's own high opinion of himself and he is already firing coaches. I am not positive about this, but it doesn't seem like Bill fires many coaches. Most have been w/him a long time and that the guys who leave are getting better opportunities somewhere else.

I don't think Hue is a good coach yet but I think he eventually can be. Remember when Belly was here. Everybody thought he sucked. Look what he turned into.
I did begin to wonder about Hue when he let our Oline walk, hired RG3 and drafted Kessler in the 3rd round.
I'm going to see how he drafts this year before I get to where you are Vers

Another thing 1-15 should knock down that ego a little

I loved Belichick when he was here. I thought he was unfairly blasted by the media because he didn't like talking to them. I also supported the benching of Bernie in favor of Vinny. We used to have robust discussions in bars about such things, rather than on message boards. LOL

I also think it is interesting that Belichick has always had very good offensive and defensive coordinators. His ego is okay w/having stars on his team and he allows those guys to do their job. Yet, Hue doesn't need an OC to help him out. What does that tell you about his ego?

When was the last time Bill had a bad season? There is no reason for him to fire coaches. If you have good coaches you can work with, you keep them as long as possible. Comparing Hue to Bill now doesn't seem particularly fair. I don't have any hard data, but how does he compare to Bill's first few years as a HC? Did BB ever not have a good QB when starting his "program"?

I also think there are different ways of getting it done as a coach. Bill is more in the Nick Saban mold. Hue is more in the Urban Meyer mold. Hue has a ways to go, and I'm not saying he'll definitely get there, but that is more who he is. Different players respond to different things. It's about getting pieces that fit together. Hue has had to work with a bunch of other people's pieces and a lot of pieces that are not in their finished shapes yet.

Bill is the better coach. But he's also in a great situation. Comparing anyone to him would skew in his favor. Put him in the situation Hue was in last year, though, and I'm not sure the end result is much better.

Bill fired his OL coach last year and brought back Scarnecchia.

Why do you continue to misconstrue what I am saying?

Where did I say Hue was a bad coach? Where did I say he couldn't be a good coach? Where did I say that Bill hasn't been doing this for a long time?

I am simply comparing the egos of both men and the "we vs me" attitudes. It's conversation. Not an indictment or a accolade for either.

That seemed like an indictment to me.

What did I misconstrue? I simply commented on the differences between the two, and stated that it is okay to be different than Bill. Hue isn't Bill. He shouldn't try to be. People have different personalities and are put in different situations.

Why don't you actually read what I write instead of assuming I'm attacking you?

I was crocheting a blanket the other day and Beverly Hills, 90210 was on in the background. The original. Dylan McKay and Brandon Walsh were in a heated discussion and it occurred to me how different they were. Dylan, essentially raised with no parental guidance and wealth, was much more self centered. Brandon, raised more traditionally with involved parents, was much more empathetic toward others. He held a job at the Peach Pit and had to pay for his own car whereas Dylan drove a Porsche he didn't have to work for.

But I think Dylan was the better athlete. And he was definitely much more of a badass.

NRTU

We must have hired Hue for his offensive talents. I don't like HCs who take on co-ordinator duties, but as far as I can see (maybe the end of my nose), Hue just calls the plays but involved the other offensive staff in prep, gameplanning etc? Like Pettine wanted to get involved in the offense, a HC will have an expertise and will no doubt influence what they want done - it is their team after all.

I have no real problem Hue not having an OC in name provided he delegates and ensures the HC duties are covered.

His team did not quit whatsoever last year. The man obviously connects to his players. There is more to like than dislike IMHO. Next year, get a middling defense and a QB and some stability on the OL and I wager we see much different results.

Patriots fire offensive line coach Dave DeGuglielmo


Jan. 25, 2016 at 07:35 p.m.
Updated: Jan. 25, 2016 at 07:59 p.m.

NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport reported Monday that the Patriots are parting ways with offensive line coach Dave DeGuglielmo, according to sources with knowledge of the situation.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...ave-deguglielmo

It's quite convenient to pull an isolated incident and try to portray it as some kind of gauge. But that fails to address the point.

In order to make your point, you would have to average the number of coaches fired in the New England staff in comparison to other NFL teams over time. But that wouldn't support what you're trying to suggest.

lol bill b has no chill

New England coaches kinda reminds you of the Browns until Bill Belichick



Lou Saban 1960–1961

Mike Holovak 1961–1968

Clive Rush* 1969–1970

John Mazur* 1970

John Mazur* 1971–1972

Phil Bengtson 1972[10]

Chuck Fairbanks* 1973–1978

Ron Erhardt 1979–1981

Ron Meyer 1982–1984

Raymond Berry *‡ 1984–1989*

Rod Rust* 1990

Dick MacPherson* 1991–1992

Bill Parcells† 1993–1996

Pete Carroll 1997–1999

Bill Belichick 2000–present

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_England_Patriots_head_coaches

Wow, 17 years as head coach..what a tenure. Oddly the year BB started 2000 is the same year they drafted Brady. Makes you wonder which piece is more important to success,the coach or the QB.

Right before the Super Bowl?

That's bizarre.

The coach/defense.

That was last year.

It's Vambo trolling again.

I was hoping to have an intelligent conversation on this thread. Instead, the usual suspects do their best to ruin the thread.

We fired 5 or 6 coaches this year. We fired a bunch last year. We fire people almost every year. And they wanna point to one firing. LOL

Then, we got Grimm totally misconstruing my intent and acting like I said Hue was a bad coach. I wonder who defended Hue more this year after games and during the week than me?

Meanwhile, all kinds of false claims are made on this board. Yet, those are ignored by guys like Grimm.

This place is depressing at times.

Vers, I don't disagree with you on continuity and Hue at the point we are at. However, we replaced 5-6 coaches because of a new DC hire. They were not necessarily fired, but they saw the writing on the wall and took other positions.

I was never a fan of the Horton hiring. I didn't understand the thought process of bringing someone on that has theoretically failed once here already. The fans would never support failure or even the thought or glimpse of failure a 2nd time, plus I just don't think Horton is a good DC.

The jury is out on Hue. As I have stated many times before, I don't like his ego as it relates to the offense. IMO he needs to have an OC that can run his Offense so he can focus on managing and leading the entire team. I like the Gregg Williams hire, because it allows him to focus on the Offense a bit more with an experienced and successful DC in place, but I still want him to oversee play calling, not be the play caller.

This season is going to tell us a lot. If we draft poorly, the Defense continues to stink, and we fail to have at least decent QB play, more changes are coming. Overhaul number 100.

That's fair, Kash. You are always fair.

Look, last year I was arguing w/posters about Horton. They were talking about how he had the 9th ranked defense last time he was here and now he would be a huge improvement over O'Neil. I suggested that the lack of talent was the biggest factor.

We then got rid of a bunch of vets and went w/youth. That might be okay for the long run, but how in the hell do you blame the DC and his assistants for a unit that was already lacking in talent and got rid of some of the better players on that D?

My theory is that choose the right guy the first time and then freaking stick w/him.

Changing coaches has NOT worked for the Browns!!! Yet, we keep doing it.

And I will be frank regarding Hue. He is a "me" guy. cfrs has posted things about how he led his team in Oakland of "Hue, Hue, Hue" chants. He was fired in part because of his power play w/in that organization. He called out his players and the FO.

I defended the guy a ton this year, but man, when he fired Horton and was talking about accountability..........sorry bro, but that struck me the wrong way. Hue's offense was not any better than Horton's defense.

I get that he wasn't going to fire his own ass, but he sure as hell didn't bring in anyone that was going to help assist him in making the O better. He even lost his right hand man.

I'm not feeling it.

What I do feel is that "Me" guys might start off well, but they typically burn out and fade away. "We" guys are the guys you want for the long haul.

With all of that said......wait until next year. It will be me defending him against many of the same people mocking me now, just like how I was skeptical about Horton when they thought he was such an improvement and are now acting like he is garbage.

I've never been a fan of Horton.

That doesn't mean he wasn't an improvement over O'Neil.

Hiring Pat Shurmur for DC would of been an improvement over Jim O'Neil.

Route tree. Hee-Hee-Hee.

I don't believe I ever said Kyle wasn't a good OC.

On the contrary, I determined I was "ok" with him leaving for the exact reason he's leaving Atl.

If had stayed, and been good, He would of been gone by now anyways.

Also, it would mean Pettine is still here most likely. So I call it a wash.

Wanna explain that route tree joke again? You used it dozens of times to bad-mouth me and dismiss Shanny.

So, how did it work again?

It's one thing to be wrong, but it's another to never acknowledge it. I have been wrong many times. I just admit it and move on. Guys like you are incapable of it.

I guess that is fine, but when y'all start acting like I have no clue, well........that's when I gotta call you on your BS!

Literally every post you ever made about Kyle had the term "route tree" in it.

It was funny.

The difference between me and you, is that I don't care if I'm wrong. I just want my team to win.

Yeah, okay.

But, don't worry..........your pal Menacebrownie will be along shortly to back you up.

Ah, that makes more sense. lol

j/c

I agree with the premise of this thread. I was very excited Hue came aboard. I thought we had a real winner. And last season was a disappointment.

Most will say now "oh but the front office did a terrible job."

It takes more than the front office to be bad enough to finish 1-15. And yes, there were injuries to key players and the season didn't go as expected.

I'd point to another thing Hue said about Kessler. He said we need to trust him on this... To me that says it was Hue's decision to go with Kessler. Otherwise, he'd say "trust us," wouldn't you think?

Now I'm not going to discredit Kessler after one season. He could turn out to be very good. And it does appear we are putting all our eggs in Hue's basket as far as picking the QB. I wouldn't necessarily give Hue that power. It spells doom for the entire organization.

#1. I don't know to many on here that think the FO is doing a terrible job. It's way to early to judge that. Compared to past FO's. They seem to be ahead of the pack IMO.

#2. Hue has said that he was talking about the Whole Team, and not Kessler, when he said Trust Me.