DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Bye Week Look at the Roster (Homer Alert)

Put on your Orange-colored glasses for a minute and consider the following possibilities. I’m looking and drafting/upgrading by position-of-need (bad thing, I know) I think next year’s starting lineup could look like this:

QB – RG3 or Kessler…hopefully with a draftee or a vet like Garropolo;
RB – Crowell & Johnson
WR – Pryor & Coleman
TE – Barnidge
OL – JT, Bitonio, Reiter, Greco, Coleman
DL – Bryant, Shelton, Ogbah
LB – Collins, Kirksey, Orchard, a high draft pick and/or FA, and whomever from a cast of guys
S – Kindred & a high draft pick…or maybe a converted Haden
CB – Boddy-Calhoun, a high draft pick and/or FA, Taylor (I know…that’s 13 guys on D)

If we draft a QB, I hope it isn’t #1 overall in THIS draft. If they take one with one of our first four picks, I think it would be crazy to have an issue with that. We have plenty of choices at backup here.

I think we need to find another competitor at RB. Not in the first three rounds or so…but early enough to get a quality guy.

I can’t imagine we will draft a WR before the 4th Rd. If only Gordon could get it together. We have plenty of backup candidates here.

I hope DeValve becomes the next Barnidge and I’m anxious to see Telfar develop in year 3. I think TE could be a target before the 4th.

I think the OL is in good shape IF they can avoid injuries…IF Bitonio, Greco and Reiter come back strong…and IF Coleman pans out. That said, I don’t think we have a choice but to consider taking an OL somewhere “early” with early defined as Rds 1-3…too many IFs. Pasztor & Drango & maybe Erving give us lots of backups here.

I’m not down on our DL. Lots of young guys there and a year-rested Bryant could be formidable IF we can get some OLB to pressure. Jonathan Allen would look good here.

We need LB help as I only like Collins & Kirksey as starters and Orchard as a backup. Garrett changes this look dramatically. Again…lots of backups here.

I’m not against upgrading at either Safety spot through the draft and/or FA. Kindred might be ok as a starter with this year under his belt. I’m not sure Campbell is even a quality backup SS and I’m certain that Poyer and Reynolds are good backups…just not long-term starters.

I think we assume that Haden gets upgraded unless he moves to FS. We really need two new starters and would then have some darn good backups/slot guys in Boddy-Calhoun & Taylor.

We MUST get a consistent KR and a PR who knows what he is doing. The revolving door at KR hasn’t worked and while I like DJ, I don’t know what he’s thinking often times as a PR.

We could get a new starter at DL or OLB with our 1st first Rd pick. I’d like to see a CB or S with that second 1st pick and the other S/CB somewhere in the second – IF we can’t grab a guy in FA. I’d throw some stupid money at Rhoades from Minn.

Every single unit could use an upgrade...some more than others. When you look at it, it’s pretty obvious that our first 4-5 picks need to bring actual humans and not more/other draft picks. I think most Browns fans feel the same way. Outside of QB, this sounds like a good and deep draft at various positions. If we do much trading, I hope it’s in packages to move up and secure a guy we really want OR to take a starting QB like JG. In any event, those first five picks should go for actual players.

Unlike some, I’m not ‘down’ on this past draft…I’m also not geeked up either. I really like C Coleman, Ogbah, Nassib, Drango,Kindred and Kessler – in no particular order. I’m anxious to see what happens with their performance between now and next year. If they can pull a Shelton-like improvement, that would be great. My hope is that Louis becomes Josh Cribbs-like on ST at the worst. I think he should be the KR.

We don’t know what we have in S Coleman but I’ve read elsewhere that he’s the best RT on the team. How anyone knows that is beyond me. That opinion includes comments that Hue does not like to play OL until he feels they are ready…whatever “ready” means. Higgins has played very little and actually CATCHES the ball and Payton is invisible. I don’t have a problem with that though we probably took one-too-many guys there. I’d like to see more of DeValve before quoting an opinion on him. Schobert looks like a ST guy and a backup LB…not a terrible thing as a rookie…I think he’s an ILB and needs to bulk up. No opinion on Caldwell or Scooby.

The Boddy-Calhoun pickup was a steal and Reiter might have been the best C we’ve had all year. Excellent finds by the FO.

There are a lot of young guys on the team that could develop ala-Shelton, could improve enough to be viable backups, and/or who could be out of the league in another year or two. Who knows? Outside of McCown and T Williams and maybe Barnidge, our “old” guys really aren’t THAT old…or are JT.

Hopefully we can get a better gauge on the new guys these last four weeks. I’ve said it many times before, the injuries have been devastating not only from a W/L standpoint, but from an evaluation standpoint in a season of re-building and evaluation. The upside is that we’ve gotten to see a lot of young guys play early in their careers…the downside is that we’ve had to play some young guys too early and too many young guys had to play at the same time.

' There is "Not" a position on this team that could not use an upgrade.

I like it, but I would have Ogbah as an OLB in base 34 not a 5-tech DL.

What about DeShaun Watson?

If they blow this upcoming draft they will be lost for at least five years.[/color][/quote]

I see this often, the problem we have, we never give enough time from all the set backs from regime changes.
Farmer literally put us three years behind.
We have to see this through for the three years we need.

Let's hope ALL our new FO learns from this year.
I recall after their first draft, they realize they missed out on players they coveted. Now with all these draft picks hopefully they start moving around the board for who they really want.

No question they need to hit on the first four picks. Let's see who could develop from this class as well next year. But it's that elusive quarterback as we all know has been our Achilles heel.

I wouldn't know how to evaluate that...however...is he playing DE now due to the learning curve or the lack of other options at DE?

That's an odd question for me to even type because it's not like the other options at OLB have been much better than the DE options.

I'm going to have to be very specific here because in a 34 defense the term "DE" refer to 2 distinct and separate positions.

In a base 34 defense their are 2 "DEs" that play side by side the NT. Those "DEs" play the 5-Technique, I'll let Matt Bowen explain it....
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2007958-nfl-101-the-basics-of-the-3-4-defensive-front



Most defenses, include 34 defenses, only play their "base defense" about 30-40% of the time. The rest of the team most defenses play in a nickel/dime front with a 4 man defensive line, the same line most people think of in a "43" defense.

In a 34 defense the "OLB" better also plays "DE" in a 4-man defensive line. This is why most sites refer to the 34 OLBs as an "edge rusher".

Ogbah is commonly referred to as "DE" but he is an edge rusher that is being forced to log snaps as a base defense 5-tech.

I hope that clears up the point I'm trying to make.

TLDR: Imho Ogbah is being wasted when he play any snaps as a 34 base defense 2-gap 5-tech because he's an edge rusher OLB in base 7-tech DE in a nickel 4-man DL.

3-4 Okie Front

The 3-4 Okie is that traditional, old-school front we see from teams such as the Patriots with both defensive ends and the nose tackle using a “2-gap” technique (play two gaps in the run front).

Inside, your two linebackers (Mike/Jack) should have the size to get downhill and fill in both the A/B gaps versus base runs with the two outside linebackers (Sam/Will) playing contain (or force) and cutback/boot.




Matt Bowen/Bleacher Report

As you can see in the diagram, the defensive ends (E) are aligned over the offensive tackles (5-technique) and are responsible for playing the “2-gap” in the B and C gaps. The nose tackle (N) is aligned head-up versus the center (0-technique) and must play both A-gaps.

At the second level, both inside linebackers, Mike (M) and Jack (J), align over the “bubbles” (uncovered offensive lineman) and fill in the A/B gaps. On the edge, the Sam (S) is aligned in a 7-technique outside the tight end (Y), and the Will (W) is in a 6-technique.

Now, let’s check out the alignments of the 3-4 Okie front using the All-22 tape of the Patriots versus the Buccaneers’ Regular/21 personnel (2WR-1TE-2RB) out of a Pro Strong I formation.




Credit: NFL Game Rewind

With the defensive ends and nose tackle (Vince Wilfork) in their traditional 3-4 alignments (5/0 techniques), the two outside linebackers are on the ball in an open (weak) side 6-technique (Will) and closed (strong) side 7-technique (Sam).

That leaves the two inside linebackers aligned over the guards (Mike/Jack) to fill downhill versus the base run game (Lead Closed, Power O, Counter OF, etc.) to the A/B gaps.

In the Okie front, you should expect defenses to blitz and use stunts (defensive ends slant, “X” stunt with outside linebacker, etc.) to take pressure off the two inside linebackers who are uncovered (and unprotected) from both guards.

I agree in part with your approach. A team must self evaluate and identify which positions it needs to address.

But, I also believe firmly in Best Player Available when it comes to the draft WITH position of need only factored in when it somes to EQUAL prospects.

My question is what areas of the team are the weakest? And what type of player is needed to address the position?

Then what is the overall value of the position? B/c all postions aren't created equal. (we had a good conversation about this last draft)

QB

Interior DL (that can penetrate, play 5-tech, and DT in 4-man line)

Edge rusher

Free Safety

Center

Corner

TE

I've got my homer glasses on and that looks like a 3 win football team.

I don't see any impact players other than Pryor. Collins' motivation seems questionable. No pass rusher. Most importantly, I don't see a QB. I understand we may take one in the draft, but don't be surprised when Kessler is under center to start the season. That doesn't translate to wins.

I think we are still a long ways away from winning more than few games here and there.

Garrett is the can't miss stud impact player and therefore MUST be the first pick. QB with the second No. 1 and then build OL and secondary.

If you've already answered this, tab, I apologize for asking ... but who do you want in the 1st round as our franchise QB? Do you think one is there this year?

I believe, truly believe, that talent gaps are myths in the NFL. If you have a QB, you have a shot. Some teams may have more talented units than others in a straight up comparison, but for the most part it's QB, coach, culture. Then you fill in the pieces.

Having said that, I believe Cleveland has now become an outlier. They've gutted the team to the point that the talent is a real issue.

Then you add horrible coordination and coaching and you get 0-16.

I agree. Kisser or Trabinsky is my choice. Watson is just another RG3. Kisser is not as bad as ND makes him look. His Coach might be the problem. One way or another we have to get a QB. Maybe Jimmy G?

Interesting....what does mean?

From a skillset perspective what traits make Watson another Griffin? Do you remember where Griffin was drafted and Hue's comments about seeing him workout/try out?

What makes you like Mitch and Kizer more then Griffin and Watson?