DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Happy Birthday Jim Brown

Happy Birthday Jim Brown. May you continue your fight against racism, in Cleveland and amongst fans, and beyond.

Happy Birthday Berea May you continue to be so miserable in your life that you need to troll.

...a reply to this thread from the Hitler-lover.

doesn't look good when i click your link and it goes straight to a thread i created. oh boy...

Glorification of a mass murderer was within your thread that is all; seems you didn't intend for the others' hate to shine through.

quote by berea on June 26, 2015:

"I am sure you can find a serial killer sympathy thread somewhere on the 'net if you look long enough as well"

You're an idiot.

Name-calling is truly pathetic, but at least an entire culture and tradition wasn't minimized and insulted.

Could you pinpoint the "glorification of a mass murderer" for me? Thanks.

quote above by Ghandi:

"Name-calling is truly pathetic, but at least an entire culture and tradition wasn't minimized and insulted."

As I pointed out within your first few posts. You are a troll, you have always been a troll, you will always be a troll. You should have been banned for good a long, long, time ago. i Pray you can get some help for your problems.

Hey GM, did you really donate $10 to Dawg Talkers?

In 1965 18 year old Brenda Ayres accused Brown of sexual assault at the Howard Johnson Motel near University Circle. Brown admitted that he new her and that she visited his room but denied having sex or assaulting her. He was acquitted of the charge.

In 1968 Jim Brown threw model Eva Bohn-Chin off the 2nd floor balcony of his home. He was charged with assault with intent to commit murder. Charges were dropped when she claimed that she slipped and Brown got off with a small fine for hitting a deputy that was investigating.

February 5, 1970 - A jury finds Brown not guilty of assault and battery charges, stemming from a traffic accident in 1969.

1978 - Is sentenced to one day in jail for beating and choking his golfing partner, Frank Snow. Brown is also fined $500 and receives two years' probation.

1985 - Brown is charged with raping and assaulting a 33-year-old woman in his home. The judge later dismisses the charges based on inconsistent testimony.

August 1986 - Brown is arrested for assaulting live-in girlfriend Debra Clark. The charges are later dropped after Clark refuses to prosecute.

June 15, 1999 - Following a domestic disturbance with his wife Monique, Jim Brown is arrested and charged with making terrorist threats toward his wife. In the 911 tape, Monique Brown accuses Brown of threatening to kill her, a claim she later recants.

September 10, 1999 - A jury finds Brown guilty of vandalism for smashing his wife's car with a shovel during the June incident. He is later fined $1,800 and sentenced to three years' probation, one year of domestic violence counseling and 400 hours community service or 40 hours on a work crew.

January 5, 2000 - Brown is sentenced to six months in jail for refusing the court-ordered counseling and community service hours handed down in 1999. He serves almost four months in the Ventura County jail in 2002.


Jim Brown may be the best RB that ever lived, but I'm not about to glorify him as a person and he has done far more to harm the black movement than to help it.

He's not a role model, doesn't deserve his current job with the Browns or the upcoming statue.

Pat Tillman was a role model. He gave up fame and fortune to fight in a cause he believed in.

Russel Wilson has visited a local children's hospital every Tuesday since he has become an NFL player. He is a role model.

Brown is a thug and woman beater that leaches off of the team because he was once great on the football field.

Giving him accolades for anything above his football accomplishments is giving this low-life too much credit.

Way to ruin a thread guys.

The first statue at First Energy Stadium will be of Jim Brown ... I have mixed feelings. While I think Jim deserves to be commemorated with a statue, I think the first should be the man the team was named after and who created a dynasty - Paul Brown. Next, Otto Graham. Then Jim. But then again, nobody asked me ...

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...art_river_index

A lot of white guys will agree.

[quote=rockyhilldawg]Hey GM, did you really donate $10 to Dawg Talkers? [/quote} Yep plus a whole lot more

What does being white have to do with it? I'm talking about local (and national) historical significance ... championships. Honest to God, does everything have to be viewed through a racial prism?

Sorry Verse, but if he said "Happy Birthday to a great football player in Browns history" it may have been a different response.

The fact that he tried to sell Brown as making achievements in fighting racism made me want to throw up.

I didn't know his 'rap sheet' was so lengthy, I was aware of past transgressions (acts of scumbag-ness, in other words) at various times in his life but didn't know it was to that extent. An all time great player? Yeah.

But I agree with Dave: Paul Brown deserves a statue first.

That post was meant for deputy, not the person who started the thread

I think the name Brown is the second most common last name on an all-time Cleveland Browns players list.

I believe Johnson is first.

Here's my take on this, FWIW.

I am of the opinion that Jim Brown is most likely a despicable human being off the field. I say "most likely" because I don't know him personally, but I've looked at his rap sheet, listened to him talk, and heard other stories from older Browns' fans about him that never made the headlines but make me shiver. I also think it he is a prime example of someone that hurts racial relations than helps it. The ignorant 'monkey' comment he made a few years back and being quoted as getting 'respect' from the Haslems is par far the course from him. Again, he disgusts me.

That said, I'm perfectly fine with him getting a statue outside FES.... as long as it is made abundantly clear we are celebrating Jim Brown the football player and not Jim Brown the human being. There are many examples where this exists today:

- Ray Lewis has a statue in Baltimore with his "allegations".
- Big Ben will most likely get one and he assaulted women.
- Michael Jordan cheated on his wife countless times and had severe gambling problems. He has one....I think.

I have no problem celebrating the impact Jim Brown made on the Cleveland Browns...sports figures aren't gods, although over the past decades the perception is evolving into something similar. I think we need to recognize and understand a statue within the confines of FES isn't celebrating his life (if it was in Public Square or University Circle, that's a different story), but rewarding the impact a player who influenced Browns' lore and the NFL on the field. By sequestering this statue to the lakeshore, I think lends itself to the argument to acknowledge JB the football player. However, I still believe the conversation needs to happen offline (among fans, your children, friends over drinks) on accepting both sides of the coin between the football player and the person. And if you are going to openly celebrate JB's work accomplishments, you better damn well accept everything that came along with him.

I don't have kids, but if/when I do, and walk them past the Jim Brown statue and my son/daughter asks me who that is, I will tell them both sides of the story. I'll explain why the statue is there and then go on to say they should never aspire to be the "person" that Jim Brown was.

That's just me.

This is an interesting article related to the JB statue.

Former Browns players wonder if Jim Brown statue is a PR ploy or impetus to spur improved relations with alumni

Honoring No. 32: Jim Brown’s mercurial and complicated relationship with the Cleveland Browns reached its apex Wednesday when owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam announced that Brown would be honored with a statue outside of FirstEnergy Stadium.

The Browns used the occasion of Brown’s 80th birthday to spring this ultimate honor on the franchise’s -- and arguably the NFL’s -- greatest player.

The unveiling will take place during the 2016 Browns Alumni Weekend. You can bet that Brown will not boycott the event, as he did the inauguration of the Browns’ Ring of Honor in 2010.

Back then, Brown felt disrespected when former President Mike Holmgren revoked Brown’s $500,000 salary as an advisor to owner Randy Lerner and offered a smaller compensation to serve the franchise “when needed.” Holmgren was merely carrying out the order of Lerner, but Brown took Holmgren to the woodshed in a very public rant.

After Haslam bought the franchise, of which Brown is the certifiable living legend, he “won” back Brown’s allegiance in 2013 with a new, six-figure salary and the title of special advisor.

And now comes the statue.

All of which is very interesting to the majority of Browns alumni who have felt disrespected and alienated since Browns alumni relations have been reorganized under the Haslam ownership.

“The fans value the past, and the past is more than Jim Brown. That’s our bottom line,” said 1980s era linebacker Dick “Bam-Bam” Ambrose.

Alumni unrest: Ambrose, who is entering his 12th year on the bench as judge of the Cuyahoga County Court of Common Pleas, does not have a personal ax to grind. Rather, he serves as kind of an unofficial mouthpiece of Browns alums who have become increasingly disgusted with the Haslam organization’s treatment of its former players.

Browns alums have seen traditional perks taken away while the club has redirected financial resources to other areas.

The former players have been devalued, they believe, by Haslam’s business advisors who can’t monetize alumni relations. They see former players continually passed over for relevant roles and no alumni advocate in the team’s headquarters.

The Browns alumni department has been severely reduced and reorganized under the supervision of Kevin Griffin, vice president of fan experience and marketing. Browns alums feel they have been disrespected and marginalized.

“We were not happy with the way things evolved when this ownership took over,” Ambrose said. “When Holmgren was there, the relationship was pretty good because he used the Green Bay Packers model (of embracing team alumni). This group has been a little more bottom-line.”

You can read into that as Holmgren taking away Brown’s half-million dollar salary and spreading it into the alumni as a whole. The Haslam group went the other way. Jim Brown has been re-upped – primarily because he brings in revenue, alums believe – while many other former players are mostly uncompensated for team-sponsored functions.

They are particularly offended, for example, that the owners of Swagger, the bull mastiff who has been appointed the team’s unofficial mascot by the club marketing department, receive up to $800 in appearance fees while former stars of the team are asked to donate their time for some team appearances. I know of several former players who want nothing to deal with the current regime.

At a reunion of the Browns’ Kardiac Kids 1980 team last summer, former players talked passionately about the disappointing state of alumni affairs.

“It was fairly unanimous in terms of how they felt about the relationship that, in this case, they do not have with the team, which really saddens me,” said former Browns receiver Dave Logan, now the radio voice of the Denver Broncos.

“There was a feeling of disconnect. These are teammates of mine that played for a long time and gave everything they had for this organization and this city. If in fact what they feel is true, I think it’s sad and it’s shameful.

“There was a lot of passion there. I don’t think these guys are looking for anything extraordinary. I think they’re looking to be respected and included and acknowledged and sort of reached-out, like other first-rate clubs do.”

In November, Ambrose authored a letter to Haslam to outline the alumni’s gripes.

The result was the creation of a Browns Alumni Advisory Board, made up of former players from all Browns eras. The board, on which Ambrose sits, was to meet on a quarterly basis with Browns President Alec Scheiner and Griffin to improve relations and work with the club on different marketing opportunities.

Going forward: Ambrose believes a thaw in relations between the alumni and club is occurring.

“I think the front office acknowledges that alumni relations is important,” he said. “I think the letter to Haslam triggered that. The team has taken a bit of a PR hit on that and I think it is willing to work more with alumni now and make some positive changes.”

The decision to honor Brown with a statue may be an effort to revitalize relations with alumni. The Ring of Honor has been totally dormant since the Holmgren regime, under the direction of former president Bryan Wiedmeier, instituted it in 2010.

In its release announcing the Brown statue, the club indicated there would be more honorees to come.


It stated: “The team … is currently evaluating opportunities to recognize additional major team contributors with commissioned pieces at FirstEnergy Stadium.”

Those would have to include Paul Brown, the founding coach and creator of the 1950s dynasty that popularized the franchise to this day; Otto Graham, the quarterback who led the team to seven league championships and 10 championship games; Lou Groza, the Hall of Fame left tackle and place-kicker and the franchise’s greatest amabassador; and racial barrier-breakers Bill Willis and Marion Motley.

I argue that Paul Brown deserved a statue before Jim Brown. Paul Brown made the Browns the pre-eminent NFL franchise seven years before Jim Brown arrived on the scene.

But what’s important is that Haslam’s organization uses this not as a marketing opportunity and revenue generator but as an opportunity to re-connect with all the alums who toiled to make this franchise one for generations of which to be proud.


http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland//post/...ons-with-alumni

Good post, Deputy.

j/c..

The Browns just can't help themselves from stepping in it. The NFL (however genuine it may or may not be) has a huge campaign going on against domestic violence and abuse towards women. What do the Browns do? Announce they are essentially deifying a man with a rap sheet that would make Ray Rice blush.

I have not been a big fan of Kevin Griffin over the last 3 years I wish he would have turned out more like his Uncle Archie. IMO the fan experience has gotten even worse since he has been here. As far as the Alumni well a lot of people in Berea miss Tony Dick, and a lot of Alumni miss him as well. The guy busted his back while he was in the organization, and he truly cared about the Alumni players

As for this statement



You can bet that Jimmy will use this as a marketing opportunity and revenue generator. He has done a lot of that since he bought the team. He as well as the last owner just don't get that putting a winner of the field, and making the fans feel special (which involves keeping the alumni involved) is the best marketing he could do, and also the best revenue generator.

I mean, what else can be done with the "Ring of Honor" until their is a player worthy to be "honored"? You got the original HOF'ers of the Browns... now who? I love Bernie - but he's not of that level. Phil Dawson, Clay, Sipe, Dixon/Minnifield, Eddie Johnson? No.

It's going to be dormant until Joe Thomas is added to it and that's all that you CAN do.

Yeah, I could see on how throwing a woman over a two story balcony can get sensationalized.

It was probably the media's fault and they were after him too.

Yeah the truth according to tab. Blame anyone but the thug that tried to kill more than one person.

Do you campaign for Hillary too?

'Jim Brown Had More Than a Few Issues Off the Field With Both Women and Men'

http://thebiglead.com/2016/02/17/jim-bro...-women-and-men/

By: Stephen Douglas | February 17, 2016 12:45 pm ET

Jim Brown, one of the greatest football players of all-time, was born on this date in 1936. Brown rushed for 12,312 yards and 106 touchdowns in 9 seasons. Brown was a member of the 1964 Browns team that won Cleveland’s last championship.

These days, Brown is a member of the Browns organization as a “special adviser.” He was hired in 2013 and new head coach Hue Jackson recently told the Cleveland Plain-Dealer that he would rely on Brown for insight. Here’s what he had to say about Brown:

“I think I’ll get to know him even better as I go through this process of being the head coach in Cleveland,” said Jackson. “Obviously he’s a sensational person, humanitarian, and football player. There are so many things to describe to Jim Brown.”

Fellow Hall of Fame running back Eric Dickerson agrees.

Eric Dickerson ✔ ‎@EricDickerson
Happy Birthday to my friend @JimBrownNFL32 The man that all of us running backs inspired to be on & off the field. #HappyBirthdayJimBrown
11:00 PM - 15 Feb 2016
126 126 Retweets 511 511 likes

Now let’s take a look at Brown’s life off the field. As a jumping off point, let’s use CNN’s “Jim Brown Fast Fact,” which includes a timeline of Brown’s life. (Everything in italics is from CNN.)

July 24, 1965 – A jury finds Brown not guilty of assault and battery against 18-year-old Brenda Ayres, after an incident in his hotel room.

In 1966, Brown fought allegations that he was the father of Ayres unborn child, though CNN also identifies Ayres as the mother of Brown’s daughter Shellee. It is not clear if that is the same child he denied fathering. It might also be worth mentioning that Brown was married to Sue Jones from 1958 to 1972. Brown had this to say after his arrest (via The Spokesman-Review):

“I am not that small that I need to beat up a girl.”

(Update: According to a recap of the trial by Jet magazine, Brown was accused, arrested and acquitted all within a few months between the 1964 and 1965 seasons.)

1968 – Brown is charged with assault with intent to commit murder after model Eva Bohn-Chin is found beneath the balcony of Brown’s second floor apartment. The charge is later dismissed after Bohn-Chin refuses to name him as her assailant. Brown also pays a $300 fine for striking a deputy sheriff during the same incident.

In Brown’s book he said that Bohn-Chin was jealous over an affair he was having with Gloria Steinem and that’s what led to a big misunderstanding with the police. Via the Los Angeles Times:

Bohn-Chin left his apartment–with Brown’s car–and went to stay with a girlfriend. He talked Bohn-Chin into returning home; they planned a playful evening with three other women.

Unfortunately, while Bohn-Chin was on the phone with this girlfriend, Brown started getting jealous. And they started fighting. And the neighbors called the police. While Brown was trying to persuade the police, at one point with his forearm, that it was just a minor domestic dispute, Eva Bohn-Chin “kind of freaked” and tried to vamoose over a rear balcony, but fell and rolled under it.

Police took Brown to the station and threatened to charge him with attempted murder. While there Brown had this to say:

“And the toughest thing I did to Eva was slap her.”

More from the LA Times:

And he knows that was wrong. “I have also slapped other women,” he wrote. “And I never should have, and I never should have slapped Eva, no matter how crazy we were at the time. I don’t think any man should slap a woman. In a perfect world, I don’t think any man should slap anyone. . . . I don’t start fights, but sometimes I don’t walk away from them. It hasn’t happened in a long time, but it’s happened, and I regret those times. I should have been more in control of myself, stronger, more adult.”

About those times…

February 5, 1970 – A jury finds Brown not guilty of assault and battery charges, stemming from a traffic accident in 1969.

1978 – Is sentenced to one day in jail for beating and choking his golfing partner, Frank Snow. Brown is also fined $500 and receives two years’ probation.

Brown and Snow settled a civil suit in 1981. The incident was over the placement of a golf ball on the 9th green during a tournament.

1985 – Brown is charged with raping and assaulting a 33-year-old woman in his home. The judge later dismisses the charges based on inconsistent testimony.

From the LA Times:
After the woman told Brown to stop and started to leave, Brown spun her around and said, “You’re not going anywhere.” He then slapped her, hit her on the head and in the stomach, and choked her, growing more violent as she asked him to stop, the woman told police.

Brown carried her to the bedroom and removed part of her clothing, she said. The woman told police that Moses had sexual contact with her and that Brown then took off the rest of her clothes and raped her.

August 1986 – Brown is arrested for assaulting live-in girlfriend Debra Clark. The charges are later dropped after Clark refuses to prosecute.

Via the Chicago Tribune:

Debra Clark, 22, locked herself in a room of the house and called police at 4:40 a.m. When officers arrived, she met them in front of the house, armed with a gun. Police Sgt. John Zrofsky said the 5-foot-1-inch Clark showed signs of a beating and was taken for photographs before being given medical treatment.

From a 1986 Sport magazine profile of Brown, republished on Deadspin in 2014:

According to Clark, Brown had been drinking and accused her of having paid too much attention to male patrons at the Sports Connection earlier that day. She said Brown had pummeled and kicked her in a jealous rage.

Clark, who wound up with a scratch under one eye, a bruised arm, and a possible cracked rib, identified herself as Brown’s fiancée and said they had planned to be married the following day, her birthday.

June 15, 1999 – Following a domestic disturbance with his wife Monique, Jim Brown is arrested and charged with making terrorist threats toward his wife. In the 911 tape, Monique Brown accuses Brown of threatening to kill her, a claim she later recants.

Here’s a portion of the transcript from the call, via USA TODAY:

Operator: “Monique, do you need a paramedic?”

Monique: “No. He hasn’t hit me.”

Operator: “He didn’t hit you today?”

Monique: “Not today.”

Operator: “OK. But there is a history of domestic violence, right?”

Monique: “Yes.”

Operator: “And he threatened to kill you today?”

Monique: “Yes.”

Here are some more details from a 1999 story in the LA Times:

In the weeks since, Monique has insisted that her husband never threatened her and that she called police just to get his attention, because she thought he was having an affair.

But Lee told the jury not to be dissuaded by the changed story and the “public image of solidarity” presented by the Browns. The night of the incident, Lee said, Monique Brown told police that her husband kept a gun in the house, and that she wanted to get her belongings and leave. Brown had told her, “I’m going to kill you by snapping your neck,” the prosecutor said.

On previous occasions, Monique told police, her husband had choked her and given her a black eye, Lee said.

September 10, 1999 – A jury finds Brown guilty of vandalism for smashing his wife’s car with a shovel during the June incident. He is later fined $1,800 and sentenced to three years’ probation, one year of domestic violence counseling and 400 hours community service or 40 hours on a work crew.

January 5, 2000 – Brown is sentenced to six months in jail for refusing the court-ordered counseling and community service hours handed down in 1999. He serves almost four months in the Ventura County jail in 2002.

From the Los Angeles Times:

A defiant Brown chose to go to jail rather than accept conditions imposed by Superior Court Judge Dale Fischer that he complete a domestic violence counseling program, pay a fine and make a payment to a battered women’s shelter. Had he done so, he would have been placed on probation.

“I took no deal,” Brown told reporters at a court appearance Tuesday. “I’m not going to take a deal, and I’ll fight as long as I have breath in my body. That’s who I am. That’s who I’ve always been.”

And that’s who the Cleveland Browns employ.

After reading all ^that^? Yes, a great RB, but that's one angry guy.

He was a thug. Blame society all you want it doesn't make him any less of a thug.

Kind of a Dennis Green quote

We're supposed to keep our heads buried in the sand about someone who abuses women?

I'm sorry but the "society made him do it" excuse doesn't fly with me when it comes to grown men beating women. I'm not sure any excuse would.

I agree. There is no reason for a man to abuse a woman, physically, or in any other way. Actually, there is no reason for any person to abuse another, no matter the genders of those involved.