DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum A case for Ray Farmer

I know that many who come to this forum are down on Ray Farmer. I have expressed my desire in other post to fire the coaching staff and keep the front office. I would like to give an argument for keeping Ray Farmer.

Below are the 2014 pre-draft rankings for the players drafted by Ray Farmer in the 2014 draft. I would like you to keep in mind that Ray Farmer is doing his first NFL draft as a GM and he is drafting talent for a coach he did not hire. Here goes.

Justin Gilbert was drafted 8th overall by the Cleveland Browns. Ray Farmer was staring down the barrel of Buster Skrine free agency and his desire to help a defensive minded coach gain some defensive talent. Justin Gilbert was ranked as follows before the draft:


TFY Draft Insider- 1st overall CB in draft, 1st round pick

CBS Sports- 19th best player in the draft

Mayock- 23rd best player in the draft

ESPN (Mel Kuiper)- 20th best player in the draft, a rare talent.


Manziel was drafted 22nd overall by the Cleveland Browns. Ray Farmer is facing a free agent QB in Hoyer who is untested.


TFY Draft Insider- 4th best QB in draft, 1st round pick

CBS- 7th best player in draft

Mayock- 10th best player in draft

ESPN (Kuiper) 22nd best player in draft.


Bitonio was drafted 35th overall by the Browns. Farmer was facing a horrible offensive line. Oniel Cousins anyone?


TFY Insider- 1st/2nd round pick, 5th best OT in the draft

CBS- 40th best player in the draft

Mayock- 39th best player in draft

ESPN (Kuiper) 30th best player in the draft


Kirksey was drafted 71st by the Browns. Remember the team lost Jackson to free agency. Robertson was just beginning to develop.


TFY Draft Insider- 3rd/4th round pick. 10th best OLB in the draft.

CBS- 137th best player in the draft.

Mayock- Did not even rank Kirksey in the top 100 players in the draft.

ESPN (Kuiper)- not worth paying Insider money to get the information.


Terrance West was drafted 94th by the Browns. The Browns had up and down RB play for a couple of years. Farmer took a chance on a young RB.


TFY Draft Insider- 8th best RB in the draft/4th round pick

CBS- 94th best player in the draft

Mayock-91st best player in the draft.


Pierre Desir was drafted 127th by the Browns. Again Farmer is facing up and down DB play in the secondary and wanted to add talent here.


TFY Draft Insider- 13th best CB in the draft/4th round pick

CBS- 84th best player in the draft

Mayock- 68th best player in the draft


In 2 seasons Gilbert has 3 starts and Manziel now 7. The only evaluations we as fans can have is what the coaching staff has given us and what we see on the field. Many on this forum believe that Manziel has shown improvement with his on the field play in only 7 NFL starts. What could it have been like if he had 16 last season and 15 this season? Perhaps the Browns have a QB like Carr, Bridgewater, or Bortles?

Gilbert was a healthy scratch this week against the Chiefs. Could Gilbert have not played as well as Tramon Williams or Charles Gaines? With all the talent evaluators prior to the NFL draft in 2014 rating Gilbert as a talented player, why is he not at least seeing the field when healthy? It is not because of Farmer. Please feel free to critique my analysis, however, I would appreciate civility instead of ridicule. Thanks.

Voleur

The only case for keeping farmer is if we keep Manziel and pettine.

I keep thinking about reggie Mckenzie out there in raider nation. Everybody wanted that guy gone.

Then he found a QB, and now he's hitting on draft picks left and right.

Being able to diagnose problems and being able to solve problems are two different things. Just because one can do the first doesn't mean they can do the latter.

Forgot about his moronic FA strategy. I'd like to see a defense for that.

I saw the title of this thread and thought it was going to be about suitcases.

That brought tears to my eyes laughing so hard..Funny !!!

I vote Sampsonite. GTFO

So exactly how much are we paying farmer to download cbs sports draft rankings the night before the draft? Pretty sure I can do that to and I'm willing to do it for half his salary.

Get rid of him.

Forget the case, USPS makes "It fits, it ships" boxes. It will be a lot cheaper to ship him out in one of those!

Farmer missed on impact players like Beckham,Carr, the list goes on.
I see his fan club has really diminished in numbers since the beginning of the year.

I dont mind the roster moves that Farmer has made. Only pick I hate is Erving, but maybe he'll come around after a season or two, similar to how Schwartz did.

Has this been posted ?

Yes. Just not that it was posted by MKC. It's the Cole report stating we'll fire Farmer and keep Pett for those who don't want to click on the link.

Thanks, I was looking for it... and like checked 3-4 times...lol cant remember s anymore...

Issue with Gilbert is no doubt he was highly touted...had a fantastic showing at the combine too...he was highly ranked..but.....

During the interviews or at least that portion of scouting he was red flagged and his stock dropped significantly...heck I still have the draft magazine that states how he was one player whom had zero buzz...Of course we didn't get the memo...


As bad as Gilbert is...I still would have loved to see him play this year and see what he is...unfortunately team decided it's best he doesn't even suit up..

Imagine...If Gilbert studded and is being mentioned as a Patrick Peterson player...Imagine if Desir was a good CB along the line of Sam Sheilds...imagine if TWest is being compared as a young Jamal Lewis...imagine if Manziel was Being mentioned as Russell Wilson...Imagine if Kirksey was a knock out like Lavante David...we would be knocking on the playoffs very soon...unfortunately that is imagining

Missing on impact players, his moronic view on WRs as a whole, the gutting of the defense, the Bowe signing. Just stop it already. Pink slip this dumbass next Monday. Period.

I'll be honest, I read the title of the thread and immediately clicked the "quick quote" button. It's too early to read whatever "justification" anyone comes up with to retain the clown who has damaged this franchise more than anyone since Modell.

The only case for Farmer is the one he uses to pack up his dartboard, magic 8-ball, tarot cards, lucky quarter and any other draft tools he has.

I do not advocate that Farmer is not making mistakes. I am advocating that perhaps the issue is not Farmer. The last time the Browns won 3 games or less was in 2000. The draft picks were there last year as well and the team went 7-9. If the players mentioned where on the team last season, the team went 7-9, the difference this season is the new players coming to the team and the players who left. Is that not a reasonable approach to evaluating the team? I mean the coaching staff is the same, well not entirely. The Front Office is the same.

The missing on impact players such as Beckham, Carr, etc... hmmm... Do you think that Beckham or Carr would be playing over players on the team now? What evidence is there to suggest that Pettine would not claim that McCown give the team the best chance to win over Carr as well? They have to be given a chance in order to do what you have seen the players do on the field. I believe that Pettine is not one to play young talent over veterans. I believe that Pettine has not shown an ability to coach young players. Therefore, I believe Farmer attempted to give Pettine the players he wanted by getting free agents. It is unfathomable that Pettine has no say in personnel on the team, both players and coaches.

I still think that Farmer should be given a chance to build this team through the draft as he started to do in 2014. Firing Farmer and replacing him with a new GM while retaining Pettine will saddle the new GM with the same problems that Pettine saddled Farmer with when he was hired as GM. I only wanted to inject into the conversation the idea that perhaps the issue is not Farmer's free agent signings. Bowe's guaranteed money has no effect on the ability of the Browns to sign other players. The team has plenty of cap space. If the players mentioned had been drafted by other teams, my contention is that they would be having more success as players than they are with the Browns. That reflects not on the player evaluation ability of the GM, but of the coaching staff and directly on the Head Coach.

Pett might end up with more power by default

If we can't pull a big name GM - then it will have to be a complimentary hire

If that's the case Farmer's defense is attempting to prove, it doesn't hold water.

I say we suck it up for another year no matter what. That way if after year 3 it's still broke the team will have shown they can have the patience to give a new coach a shot to build up. To me that would go a LONG way in attacting a higher quality HC. Plus, you never know ... things might just start to click when when draft a new QB to replace our little drunk Manziel...

Mac, would you understand if Pettine is fired and Farmer is kept for the reason you stated?

I don't see a case made for keeping Farmer ... I see a list of misses. I also don't see any reference to the players we could have taken but didn't which is a fair assessment of Farmer's performance (provided we needed a player of a certain position - for example we aren't going to knock Farmer for not drafting a stud LT). No mention of his relationship with Pettine - no mention of FA's - some of which I have been very happy with. But Dwayne Bowe by himself is possibly enough reason to fire him, no mention of that either.

If there is a case to keep Farmer - the good things have to balance out the bad. I don't see that.

I'm reading this whole thread here and hey, maybe it's just me, but - I still haven't seen anything to convince me Ray Farmer deserves another shot. Although some logical points have been made, this guy is more a miss than a hit and has the track record to support that.

Get him outta here!

Certainly from a monetary standpoint, paying 20 plus coaches to not coach is not cost effective. The question to still be answered, is the coaching effective or do you believe it will increase in effectiveness if kept? Is Haslem sold on the fact that if given proper talent Pet would be fine? Is Haslem able to hire a competent GM if he's already locked and loaded on the coaching staff?

Totally agree with this post. Anyone who watched A.J. Green and Bengals receivers in the overtime loss to Denver can see how important a highly skilled and bigger receiver is.

Bowe is just the crystalized icing on the stale cake.

Skrine, Sheard....

If you fire Farmer and keep Pettine, what GM is going to come here stuck with a Coaching staff in place ? And if he did , just how bad is he ?

That depends upon what the GM's expectations are.

If he is hired knowing that the team is not his, and that his job is simply to go get talent for the coach, then I'd say that pretty much anybody willing to accept those terms would come here.

I think the whole notion of the GM "owning" the team and picking the coach is bogus. Let him own the roster, but make it known that he's just the personnel guy. His job is to buy ingredients.

I'm trying to think of another place where his job performance would be acceptable and not be grounds for a firing.

Coming up blank..

He can scan people's tickets at the entrances. Or make sure the urinals are always tidy.

Sorry, but if we intend on keeping pettine, then farmer needs to stay, as well.

Both of them are trash, IMO. Both of them are responsible for this crap feast they call a team.

But if we're gonna keep pettine in the name of continuity, then farmer needs to stay, because maybe having a QB to get behind finally will make our drafting better.

Erving and Shelton are getting better. Manziel is showing he can lead this team.

Also, let's not act like farmer made those picks all by himself without pettiness input.

I think the above is not a great argument for why we keep him but I do think we need to keep both him and Pettine for at least another year. How many times are we told that it takes up to 3 years to grade a draft and we're giving up on these guys after little more than 2 years.

Not that I don't think there's reason to want one or both gone, I just think we have to give it another year. When you hire rookie head coaches and rookie GM's you've got to expect growing pains...

Farmers Job performance is not unacceptable. It may be that it just did not work out.

Do you really trust Farmer with another high first round draft pick? I cringe.

Your assumptions are based on people that are in the media, not in the NFL.

I would hope that folks that make it far enough to get to work for an NFL team as either a GM, Scout or Coach would know more than these folks.

TO me, the answer is simple, he's had more misses then hits. To top that off, he appears arrogant and thus far, he's got no reason to act arrogant.

Of course spending all the money on Bowe can't be viewed as smart. Drafting Erving doesn't seem smart today, but there is time for that to change and improve. Got my fingers crossed. Not finding a way to keep Buster Skrine was a mistake, but with FA's, you can make a strong offer and they can still go elsewhere.


Not finding a Big Body receiver in the draft when several were there for the taking seems like a dumb move.

It was a mistake to not get Mack locked up. Not sure he even tried. there was talk that Farmer didn't work at it but I don't know if it's true.


Then there is the texting thing. For me, it wasn't a big deal but it is another slam against the team. One more thing we don't need. And it's simple, he had to know the rules. Geesh.

Not everything that Farmer did was a bad thing. Picking Duke Johnson appears smart, grabbing Crowell up after the draft sure looks like a winner. Picking Bitonio was IMO smart.

Not making a huge attempt to keep Cameron might have been a good move.. Even if that's not what he intended. Barnage is turning in an all pro season.

And finding Austin Pasztor may turn out to be a winner also.

Drafting Manziel may turn out very good, but if you believe all the stories out there, Haslam demanded he be drafted.. so who knows. Was it Farmer or Haslam that made that pick? If it works, who do you give credit too?

Honestly, I can't believe that based solely on his performance thus far, any team would want him as a GM.