DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Ohio State Recruiting

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The NCAA should probably let the Dispatch make the announcement though, seeing how they did all of the work in the investigation and all.

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1 year bowl ban, 4 more scholarships lost, and additional year of probation.

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Exactaly what I expected.

Yeah Peen was right, we sure got hammered

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1 year bowl ban, 4 more scholarships lost, and additional year of probation.

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Exactaly what I expected.

Yeah Peen was right, we sure got hammered

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the crap bowl game they got handed

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the crap bowl game they got handed

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What other bowl do you think they should have been "handed"?

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The damage is already done. I don't see that as helping at all. I would be giving serious consideration to benching Posey and Herron for the bowl game though as a matter of respect to the underclassmen that will now be robbed of a chance to play in a bowl next year. Why should they [the underclassman] now have to miss playing in one this year and watch as the two dolts that helped cause to problem get the playing time.

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1 year bowl ban, 4 more scholarships lost, and additional year of probation.

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Exactaly what I expected.

Yeah Peen was right, we sure got hammered

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The damage is already done. I don't see that as helping at all. I would be giving serious consideration to benching Posey and Herron for the bowl game though as a matter of respect to the underclassmen that will now be robbed of a chance to play in a bowl next year. Why should they [the underclassman] now have to miss playing in one this year and watch as the two dolts that helped cause to problem get the playing time.

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1 year bowl ban, 4 more scholarships lost, and additional year of probation.

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Exactaly what I expected.

Yeah Peen was right, we sure got hammered

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Ahh Candy.


You are a likable guy....I'll leave it at that.

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Listening to the radio today I heard an interesting thing, I know it wouldn't happen but here is what was suggested. Since USC and OSU have bowl bans next season, what if both schools gave the NCAA the finger and played an exhibition game in Cowboy Stadium put on by Mark Cuban around the same date as the national championship game, how upset would the NCAA be?

Heck I don't know how good either team will be next season but I would tune in!

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The teams broke the rules and OSU got off light considering what USC got for very similar offenses.

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The damage is already done. I don't see that as helping at all. I would be giving serious consideration to benching Posey and Herron for the bowl game though as a matter of respect to the underclassmen that will now be robbed of a chance to play in a bowl next year. Why should they [the underclassman] now have to miss playing in one this year and watch as the two dolts that helped cause to problem get the playing time.

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+1

Too bad they can't opt out of this years bowl and start fresh next year. I wonder if that would have been an opportunity had the NCAA made a decision earlier.

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-JC-

So much talk on radio and online about the bowl game next year and we should of self imposed ourselves on this years bowl to avoid that. I don't think the NCAA would have accepted that.

No matter what they were going to tack on additional punishments. They don't like being told what the punishment should be. Had tOSU self imposed a bowl game this year, 9 scholorships over 3 years and 3 years probation the NCAA would of came in and tacked on a few more scholarships and another bowl.

tOSU played it right, they self imposed some punishments and gave the NCAA room to come in and add to them where they ended up with pretty much a slap on the wrist. I don't call this being hammered at all. (Despite just about every article headline and all of the talk shows on radio saying so.)

So next year Urban will come in and get his system in place. The Michigan game will be our bowl game and hopefully with another good recruiting class next year we can make a run at the B1G Title and possibly the NT in 2013.

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1 year bowl ban, 4 more scholarships lost, and additional year of probation.

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Exactaly what I expected.

Yeah Peen was right, we sure got hammered

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And I expect Penn State will have it's football program dismantelled for it's transgressions.


The thing that gets me most about NCAA punishments, is they have a greater affect the people who didn't have violations, and often no affect on those that did.

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What penalty did Miami get again?

This is a freakin' joke.

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What penalty did Miami get again?

This is a freakin' joke.

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Aren't they still investigating?

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Ohio State case could set precedent for future program penalties

As soon as the news trickled out Tuesday that the NCAA's Committee on Infractions had dealt Ohio State a one-year postseason ban for its booster- and tattoo-related infractions, people began asking the obvious next question(s).

What does this mean for Miami? Oregon? Penn State? North Carolina? Or any other school currently awaiting NCAA sentencing?

The literal answer is: nothing. There are almost no guidelines the Committee must follow in determining the severity of its penalties; it isn't bound by past precedent when comparing one school's infractions with another; and its membership roster changes by year and even by case, meaning its rulings are inherently inconsistent and thereby impossible to predict.

It's also why so many people -- particularly in Los Angeles -- expressed varying degrees of outrage over the Committee's final judgment on Ohio State. After last year's Draconian verdict in the Reggie Bush case, in which Paul Dee and Co. hammered USC with a two-year bowl ban and 30 docked scholarships due primarily to extra benefits bestowed on a single athlete, anything short of public executions for Gordon Gee and Gene Smith would inevitably be viewed as a slap on the wrist. Dee's term on the Committee has since ended. When asked on a teleconference Tuesday about comparisons between the Ohio State and USC cases, SEC associate commissioner and Committee member Greg Sankey noted his term had not even yet begun at that time. We'll never know exactly why Dee's Committee came down so hard on USC, but the school's adversarial response likely played a big part. Whether or not that's fair is another matter entirely.
But what does this mean for Miami, Oregon, Penn State and North Carolina?

Well, it's possible the Ohio State case will replace USC as the new baseline for those cases. Personally, I think Tuesday's ruling was perfectly reasonable. Neither a one-year bowl nor nine docked scholarships will cripple the program, but preemptively rendering Urban Meyer's first team ineligible for the Big Ten title is no slap on the wrist, either. On top of the suspensions and coaching turmoil that doomed the Buckeyes to a 6-6 season this year, the program will have served two years in purgatory for the misdeeds of Jim Tressel, Terrelle Pryor and others.

While the NCAA loves to remind us that no two cases are the same, the Committee actually made two references in Tuesday's report that suggest otherwise. At one point, in discussing the "insider" status enjoyed by now-disassociated booster Bobby DiGeronimo (who paid several players $200 apiece for appearing at his charity event and hooked up some with unapproved short-term jobs), the report specifically references a 2003 case at Arkansas involving a similar figure. Later, the Committee writes that it considered issuing a multi-year ban but refrained "after weighing the aggravating factors and the overall seriousness of the case in light of other recent major infractions cases where a multiple year postseason was imposed."

So the Committee does look at past cases, then. And considering most of the same people who heard the Ohio State case will be hearing upcoming ones as well -- all current members' terms run through at least next September, some until 2013 or '14 -- surely they'll look at their own past rulings when issuing new ones, right?

Maybe, just maybe, we can take an educated stab at what they'll decide.

• North Carolina: If any program's fans should be shaking after Tuesday's ruling, it's the Tar Heels'. UNC went before the Committee in October, and its verdict is expected shortly. When its Notice of Allegations came out this summer, fans hung their hopes for a lenient sentence on the following facts: 1) It avoided the dreaded Lack of Institutional Control charge, receiving Failure to Monitor instead; and 2) The school was proactive, suspending players itself as soon as allegations of misconduct arose prior to the 2010 season.

Well, Ohio State was also charged with Failure to Monitor. It self-reported every violation in Tuesday's report, preemptively fired Tressel, disassociated Pryor and DiGeronimo and self-imposed several penalties -- and still it got hit with a bowl ban. North Carolina should expect even worse, considering its case is wider in scope and involves two of the NCAA's biggest no-nos -- academic fraud and agent violations. I'd expect a two-year bowl ban and at least one docked scholarship for every player who received impermissible benefits or improper academic help.

• Miami: It could be a year or more before this investigation concludes. From the beginning, Miami's fate would depend less on rogue booster Nevin Shapiro's misdeeds and more on how much culpability, if any, the NCAA pegs on school employees. Yahoo!'s original report contends that several assistant coaches steered recruits to Shapiro, and that Shapiro nearly came to blows with the program's compliance director in 2007, which sure seems like a red flag.

If any or all prove true, Miami is likely looking at USC-level sanctions. Remember, the NCAA hung that school based almost entirely on its belief that running backs coach Todd McNair knew of ex-con Lloyd Lake's relationship with Bush and didn't stop it. Shaprio also fits closely the profile of DiGeronimo in terms of his access to the program. The Committee faulted Ohio State for failing to more closely monitor DiGeronimo, and he's only accused of handing out a few hundred dollars to a handful of players, not eight years spent showering 72 athletes with benefits. And Miami, like Ohio State, is considered a repeat violator. There's no Jim Tressel smoking gun e-mail here that we know of, but if the NCAA determines even one staff member knew of Shapiro's activities and didn't do anything, Miami's penalties will go far beyond those of Ohio State's.

• Oregon: This one's impossible to predict because there is no known precedent for the Willie Lyles saga. The Committee will likely determine that Oregon's payments for Lyles' recruiting services were inappropriate given his relationship with the program. He will be deemed an unofficial booster, one that helped the program recruit players like Lache Seastrunk. But will the Committee go so far as to say the school bought a recruit? I doubt it, but again, that's a guess.

Since it's a recruiting-related case, scholarship reductions for future classes wouldn't be surprising. But Oregon fans' biggest concern should be whether Chip Kelly or other staff members get hit with unethical conduct charges (and in turn, show-cause penalties like Tressel's). That would have more tangible consequences than a few docked scholarships.

• Penn State: Despite President Mark Emmert's tersely worded letter following the Jerry Sandusky grand jury report, I don't believe the NCAA will ever follow through with a formal investigation into the school's institutional control, nor should it. It's too slippery a slope. All the schools above violated or may have violated specific bylaws regarding recruiting, eligibility and amateurism, issues with a direct impact on a sport's "level playing field." The Penn State scandal involves issues of enormous societal magnitude but has no impact whatsoever on actual athletic competitions.

Emmert's letter cited vague bylaws about unethical conduct (including the infamous 10.1 clause used against Tressel) in justifying a query, but if it's going to start investigating all manner of unethical conduct in athletic departments, the NCAA is going to have its hands full. Does a coach's DWI arrest like Missouri's Gary Pinkel merit a visit from investigators, too? What about the Kansas ticket-scalping scandal a couple years back that landed former athletic department employees in prison?

Some matters are better left for actual judges and juries. Their punishment options include far bigger deterrents than bowl bans and scholarship cuts.

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In case anyone wonders, none of our recruits are jumping ship as of now.

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The teams broke the rules and OSU got off light considering what USC got for very similar offenses.

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Explain how they are the same then I'll tell you why they're not.

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The teams broke the rules and OSU got off light considering what USC got for very similar offenses.

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Explain how they are the same then I'll tell you why they're not.

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Both situations involved players getting benefits and money. USC has 1 player. OSU had 9.

USC was proven have had an assistant coach know and help cover up, while OSU had the head coach knowing and covering it up.

Both schools played the ineligible player(s).

Tressel lied directly to the face of the NCAA on at least 3 occassions before admiting that he "was trying to protect the players by not saying anything" yet told everyone except who he should have.

I'd love to hear how they were different though.

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9? i thought it was 6 and 7 with the new one at the end. most of them were repeate offenders.

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You're arguing that it's not 1 vs. multiple, just 6 or 7 vs. 9?

Okay...

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The teams broke the rules and OSU got off light considering what USC got for very similar offenses.

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Explain how they are the same then I'll tell you why they're not.

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Both situations involved players getting benefits and money. USC has 1 player. OSU had 9.

USC was proven have had an assistant coach know and help cover up, while OSU had the head coach knowing and covering it up.

Both schools played the ineligible player(s).

Tressel lied directly to the face of the NCAA on at least 3 occassions before admiting that he "was trying to protect the players by not saying anything" yet told everyone except who he should have.

I'd love to hear how they were different though.

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You are leaving out a couple of other things:
OSU cooperated fully with the investigation whereas USC denied and denied. I really think this was the biggest misstep that USC took and OSU took notice of that.

USC was giving houses out to parents - the 9 OSU players got a total of about 12k of tattoos by selling items that were theirs. This really has nothing to do with the sanctions IMO. They were punished for these and had Tressel not lied he'd still be the coach. Which brings me to my last point....

OSU fired Tressel because of his lies. Carrol quit and USC never took any steps to fire him when they had a chance.

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Tressel wasn't fired. Even if he was forced to resign, he wasn't fired.

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Tressel wasn't fired. Even if he was forced to resign, he wasn't fired.

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LOL

It's a really nice way of firing someone.

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