|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,532 Likes: 981
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,532 Likes: 981 |
Quote:
Do you consider "progressives" and "hard line liberals" the same people?
No doubt.
"Progressives" is just some spin Dr. name.
It is what it is.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,843 Likes: 158
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,843 Likes: 158 |
Quote:
No doubt.
"Progressives" is just some spin Dr. name.
It is what it is.
Yes, it is what it is,, I dislike and distrust all extremists.. ALL OF THEM,, Liberal or conservative,, If they are extremist, then they are NOT for the american people,, they are for themselves and for those that support thier candidacy... neither side can make a true case for thier argument if they are in the extreme.. doesn't work, hasn't worked in the past, won't work in the future..
the sooner we figure out that politicians should and need to do the work of the MAJORITY, the better off we'll be...
Until then, it's bickering and foolish arguments that get the country NOWHERE...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205 Likes: 234
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205 Likes: 234 |
Thanks for posting, Petey ... that was hilarious. The one with Hitler learning that OSU lost to Purdue was even funnier.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,831
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,831 |
Quote:
"Progressives" is just some spin Dr. name..
Teddy Roosevelt would disagree with you.
Progressive in modern terms means "party of change". If the policy was conservative, those who wants to liberalize things are progressives, the same goes for vice versa. There hasn't been a "Progressive Party" since Wallace ran in 1948. So when people call themselves progressive, it just means change.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Because Ron Paul isn't charismatic enough. He's dull, boring and rational. He doesn't appeal to the MTV generation.
That's really a drop in the ocean.
Way more importantly...he doesn't appeal to corporations, he doesn't appeal to banks, he doesn't appeal to career politicians, he doesn't appeal to pundits who cater to the right or left (although the left likes to adopt him for a day or two every time he defies his party in regards to national defense)...he doesn't cater to the general population, who fear abandoning the normalcy of two parties...
And there's something to the idea of the 'MTV generation' ... as it continues to mutate in future generations, it's also somehow retroactively spread. I know a lot of older folks who have gotten with the technology...and as a result spend a lot of time being numbly entertained by trivial and neutered distractions. I've always thought the term 'MTV generation' held a connotation of a short attention span, a low intelligence, a certain apathy ... and I think as our technologies develop, more folks are apt to fit into that category.
A politician is rarely judged on what they do, but by what they say. I bet tyhe Coakley folks thought she would help to save health care, and I bet the Brown folks are glad that he's going to fight to save health care ... I don't really want to spoil the ending, but either one of them would contribute to the bloated, corrupt, overexpensive corporate friendly bill that will eventually pass.
I am fairly confident a health care bill will pass. I assume it will be a Democratic bill, but I don't think if the GOP were to sweep '10 and '12 clean that there still wouldn't be a demand for something. The major flaws in our system will still exist, and I don't really see this financial crisis going away soon ... we haven't changed oru ways in the slightest, and we won't anytime soon. Sooner or later, the matter will come to a boil, and the politicians will pounce on it. A GOP bill will be much quieter ... but just as bad.
Unlike '93, I don't think if this thing gets killed that the issue goes away. I think it's a matter of which party in the end gets to say that they made the system 'better' ... because I doubt the 'it's fine as it is' argument will continue to tread water ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 Likes: 280
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 Likes: 280 |
Quote:
And for all the right wing vitriol about all things health care, I guess they're going to get the chance to really do something, really sink their teeth into it and come up with something revolutionary after mid terms next year when they win back the senate. All that talk of starting the health care process over again is bound to produce big results! Or is it more likely that nothing will happen? Anyone wanna place a bet? Let's retreat back to doing nothing! At least we've already done the math on that scenario and know when the whole shebang is going to collapse. In fact, lets go for another couple of rounds of deregulation, we could speed it up! Better yet, we could just let the corporate giants write some legislation of their own and make it look like we're trying to be constructive just like the prescription drug bill of 2003. Now that was a beautiful example of republican health care legislation!
One thing we all know is true. Victory is double edged sword. They want that big ol' crap sandwich back that was handed to Obama when he came into office? OK. Come this time next year, it's on them. They seem to know what they don't want, they've mastered the self righteous indignation and loud exhortations of "no, No, NO!" Ok guys, it's on you, you want the crap sandwich back, enjoy.
Hmmmm... for 40 years.. FORTY YEARS.. I've heard about the eminent collapse of social security.. since the 70s people saw the aging baby boomers coming of age all at the same time, while the numbers in the work force dropped, thus creating a massive burden on the whole social security system.. FOR FORTY YEARS republicans and democrats alike said something needed to be done.. President Bush tried to do something revolutionary to get the government out from under the weight of that program.. and what did the democrats say? "no, No, NO!"
For 40 years I've heard about the declining quality of public education.. how we are lagging the rest of the world, how we aren't providing a quality education to the kids that are willing to do the work... President Bush tried to do something revolutionary to create a different system that allowed the kids that actually want to learn to have a better chance to learn... and what did the Democrats say? "no, No, NO!"
What was the democrats answer to fix social security? Raise taxes and throw a bunch more money at it.
What was the democrats answer to fix public education? Raise taxes and throw a bunch more money at it.
So take your diatribe on revolutionary ideas and get on out of here buddy. The dems have no room to talk.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,102
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,102 |
I sure don't see where the Republicans can pound their chest and exclaim rightousness on this matter. With a Republican congress and Clinton as President the country had a rather conservative fiscal policy and he sure didn't leave office with a trillion dollar budget deficit. Where are your complaints about the Republicans saying "No" to Clinton's plain to pay back the Social Security trust fund? The only policy that Republicans came up wih was to lower taxes, hocking the country to the Chinese and passing the IOU note to future generations. Not that we didn't pay a price. Those seeing what was happening drove the dollar down and with it the price of gas and groceries through the roof.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,843 Likes: 158
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,843 Likes: 158 |
EXTREMISTS. No matter what side of the isle.. Aren't EVER going to do anything for the people they serve.. They will only do right by themselves..
You can all believe what you want as to who's fault it is for our lot in life.. be my guest,, But the truth is, it's OUR fault for not demanding they stop lining thier own pockets and start doing the job they were elected to do..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,127 Likes: 1048
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,127 Likes: 1048 |
Quote:
I sure don't see where the Republicans can pound their chest and exclaim rightousness on this matter. With a Republican congress and Clinton as President the country had a rather conservative fiscal policy and he sure didn't leave office with a trillion dollar budget deficit. Where are your complaints about the Republicans saying "No" to Clinton's plain to pay back the Social Security trust fund? The only policy that Republicans came up wih was to lower taxes, hocking the country to the Chinese and passing the IOU note to future generations. Not that we didn't pay a price. Those seeing what was happening drove the dollar down and with it the price of gas and groceries through the roof.
Irrelevant. This particular case isn't a Dem vs. Rep situation. It's a lot of fed up people from both sides that see what a crock of BS this health care bill is. Brown was against it, Coakley was for it...and she got the ax. Do you support the bill as passed by the senate?
Anyhow, conservatives on this board have voiced their displeasure with the republican party. The liberals on this board won't even admit they're liberal. 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
It's a lot of fed up people from both sides that see what a crock of BS this health care bill is. Brown was against it, Coakley was for it...and she got the ax.
Right...but there's still going to be a bill...I don't know if it's going to be this one...but within the next two years, there will most likely be a bill. I even heard Boehner talking today...he wasn't saying 'we need to kill this bill' or 'the system we have is fine'...he was talking about tweaking the bill...inevitably, we will have a bloated and dysfunctional health care bill.
The wheels have started turning...the insurance companies and pharm companies have already hashed out their subsidies ... the folks in D.C. will squabble over what other entities/constituents get a pay day, but there will be a bill...that's why I don't get the excitement, outside of a partisan victory.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,102
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,102 |
Quote:
Do you support the bill as passed by the senate?
Straight question and my answer is I'm against the senate bill. As far as healthcare reform goes, I think the effort should be centered on medical and insurance professions being required to provide consumers upfront financial information. I also would like healthcare costs to be either 0% or 100% tax deductible and end the unproductive paper shuffling involved with these medical tax saver accounts and having to play soothsayer each November in estimating my family's medical expenses for the coming year.
As far as liberal and conservative goes, I'm pretty much of an independent thinker and really don't identify with either. Liberals do too much whining, don't accept responsibility and practice do as I say and not as I do. Conservatives bitch and moan, won't accept accountability for anything and will spend as wildly as the liberals as long as killing is involved.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,267 Likes: 3
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,267 Likes: 3 |
Quote:
Hmmmm... for 40 years.. FORTY YEARS.. I've heard about the eminent collapse of social security.. since the 70s people saw the aging baby boomers coming of age all at the same time, while the numbers in the work force dropped, thus creating a massive burden on the whole social security system.. FOR FORTY YEARS republicans and democrats alike said something needed to be done.. President Bush tried to do something revolutionary to get the government out from under the weight of that program.. and what did the democrats say? "no, No, NO!"
For 40 years I've heard about the declining quality of public education.. how we are lagging the rest of the world, how we aren't providing a quality education to the kids that are willing to do the work... President Bush tried to do something revolutionary to create a different system that allowed the kids that actually want to learn to have a better chance to learn... and what did the Democrats say? "no, No, NO!"
What was the democrats answer to fix social security? Raise taxes and throw a bunch more money at it.
What was the democrats answer to fix public education? Raise taxes and throw a bunch more money at it.
So take your diatribe on revolutionary ideas and get on out of here buddy. The dems have no room to talk.
Depressing isn't it. It's amazing to me that we expect anything from a president as long as the congress is what it is with no end in sight.
Maybe every 10 years or so we should have a national no confidence yes or no vote that would mandate all brand new reps. At least there would be a price for failure.
The only thing these clowns can get done is enact their own pay raises.  
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,127 Likes: 1048
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,127 Likes: 1048 |
Quote:
I also would like healthcare costs to be either 0% or 100% tax deductible and end the unproductive paper shuffling involved with these medical tax saver accounts and having to play soothsayer each November in estimating my family's medical expenses for the coming year.
LOL! I agree. We were at the pharmacy trying to wipe out the "use it or lose it" flexible spending account in December.
Quote:
Conservatives bitch and moan, won't accept accountability for anything and will spend as wildly as the liberals as long as killing is involved.
I think you've got conservatives mixed up with republicans. Unfortunately, there's a big difference these days.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
I think you've got conservatives mixed up with republicans. Unfortunately, there's a big difference these days.
I'd say the same thing about the other side.
Our political system has seriously narrowed down to 'the candidate who I identify with more than the other'
Brack Obama...Geroge W. Bush...John Boehner...Nancy Pelosi...these are the people you're rolling with? Your vote goes to them? You're defending them? You're forgiving their transgressions in the name of a compromised political opinion?
(the you's' are not 'you', as in J, , of course).
I'm telling you and everyone else...and I know people think I say this to get a rise or reaction, or because I'm crazy or misguided or stupid...but I don't see a whole lot of liberals or conservatives in our government. Neither. Their arguments may appeal to that base, general level of thinking...but their actions don't.
And they know they can get away with it because a) people don't pay attention and b) most people have political allegiances, and no matter what they trot out, those zombies will back them so long as it hits one end of the spectrum with vigor...
I imagine if one could sit in a room with a political genius like Clinton or Rove, the word 'zombie' would come up a lot. It's what we are in terms of politics.
Look no further than two current kingpins of the game ... Barack Obama and Sarah Palin.
These two could literally walk out to podiums and ramble a string of non-sensical words that mean nothing, and folks would spend weeks arguing the merits of these words.
Hope. Change. Freedom. Terrorists. Enviornment. Abortion. Gays. Taxes. Liberty. Health care. Private. Corporate. Government. Public. Iraq.
I do think the American citizens are dumb as a whole ... but I think the government we've allowed to happen is dumber than we are. It's beneath us.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Democratic candidate Martha
Coakley has conceded
|
|
![[Linked Image from i190.photobucket.com]](http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z33/booger52/phpGGRdhwAM.jpg)
