DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus More on Musk

This is related to twitter ....

https://bsky.app/profile/mcuban.bsky.social/post/3ll2wtrxp6k2i

Echo chamber. No wonder the Trump faithful here post so many links from twitter.

What do y’all know about Tesla’s? I hear they’re pretty hot.

I left. It was a pretty quick descent into being a megaphone for one person and his interests. You can see how it’s taken it’s toll on people, including a once very highly acclaimed and respected poster on this board.

I have never had a twitter account
Kinda proud of that

You cant blame anything on musk. You have to blame trump.

I signed up during COVID to try and connect with more Browns fans. I joined the #D4L group and all that. It was going great until the algorithm started turning a few months after “the purchase.” After that I got plastered in the face with stuff and cut bait before falling down the rabbit hole. Perhaps I should do that across the board for my own sanity.

Never had FB or Twitter. Twitter seemed to be more attractive to me than FB which always seemed like a fake place to try to make people's lives sound better than they were or to post about inane stuff constantly. No-one in my family is that tech savy or interested either - so there was no motivation from a 'family' perspective either.

On Musk - this is an OPINION Piece from The Guardian (their news reports are factual - this is opinion). But it points to a bigger issue with Tesla stock price than some angry protests. Peen was talking about Market corrections the other day ... well this seems to be a correction also.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...nd-of-strategic-state-elon-musk-despises

A Few Snippets:

Last week, the Chinese electric vehicle (EV) manufacturer unveiled new charging technology that, it says, is capable of delivering 400km (249 miles) of driving range in just five minutes – as quick as filling up a petrol car. The system, released next month, will be fitted in two EVs, priced from 270,000 yuan (£29,000) – comparable to Tesla’s most affordable model in China. Yet BYD claims to quadruple Tesla’s kilometres-per-minute charging rate. Technological supremacy at a competitive price may help to explain why BYD now sells seven times as many cars in China as Tesla.

With its commanding edge in EVs, China’s leadership is poised to set the rules and dictate, on its own terms, the future of the technology. It did so on the cheap: BYD reportedly received Chinese government subsidies worth about a quarter of the $15bn that Mr Musk’s Tesla obtained from US authorities.

(On this last point - Musk got $15 Billion in subsidies but then wanted to pay himself $56B ? Wonder if he ever thought to repay the subsidies?).

Me neither. No interest in it... and from what I've heard, X is worse.

Musk got 15B in subsidies? I can't find that.

Who might that be?

Not sure if you're trying to draw the distinction between Musk and Tesla? A Google search of Tesla US subsidy indicates he's received 36 billion over 20 years.

You said 15B specifically, and then repeated it:

(On this last point - Musk got $15 Billion in subsidies but then wanted to pay himself $56B ? Wonder if he ever thought to repay the subsidies?).

Just wondering how that's attributed to Tesla?

And I think your Google search is bad. My search shows that number -- 36B as an estimate for Tesla and SpaceX over a 20 year period. And not just subsidies -- contracts, tax credits and loans -- those are not considered subsidies. That number also includes 9B received for selling regulatory credits to other automakers. You know, because that will save the planet.

Tesla has received 11.4 billion in subsidies.

The true genius of Elon Musk is his ‘subsidy harvesting strategy,’ political science professor says

Musk has reportedly collected at least $38 billion in funding through government contracts, loans, subsidies, and tax credits that go as far back as 20 years, according to a recent Washington Post analysis. His electric-car maker Tesla has collected $11.4 billion in regulatory credits, per the Washington Post, but most of the funds (via government contracts from NASA and the Department of Defense) are to his rocket maker, SpaceX. A separate ABC News analysis found SpaceX and Tesla were granted at least $18 billion in federal contracts in the past decade.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/true-genius-elon-musk-subsidy-110500444.html

As he cuts the jobs of veterans and even the VA.

Regulatory credits are paid to him from other auto manufacturers that can't cut the mustard on CAFE standards. They buy the credits to avoid heftier fines and penalties. It's a shell game our government created to make us think they're saving the planet.

Not that facts ever matter.


BTW, for those that don't know, every time SpaceX launches a rocket for NASA, he's basically handing taxpayers billions dollars... Before Musk, NASA was spending 10B per launch, Musk has those charges down to 260 million per mission.

I know y'all hate facts... and saving tax dollars... but there's both.

So you asked for the evidence of the subsidies but didn't really care about the information to begin with. Does that savings include all of his rockets that keep blowing up?

The credits are purchased by other automakers, not paid by the government. Is this really that hard??


Perplexity AI:

are tesla's $11.4 billion in regulatory credits paid to him by other automakers considered subsidies?

Answer

Tesla's $11.4 billion in regulatory credits are not considered direct government subsidies. These credits are earned by Tesla for producing zero-emission vehicles and are then sold to other automakers who need them to comply with emissions regulations. The credits represent a market-based mechanism rather than a direct government payment.

If it's not Twitter it's AI. For someone who ignores 90% of the facts posted on this board you sure do pick and choose when you care about them. Sorry, but everyone but AI calls them subsidies. Is this really that hard?

I'll call them what everyone else calls them and you won't. I'm fine with that.

Would you feel better if I non-stop copy and pasted "news stories" like you do?

I don't care if you, your mom and your whole family marches in the street to call them subsidies, they're still not.

The bottom line is it's another in a long list of failed attempts by you and yours to paint a picture (with crayons) that doesn't exist. None of this comes from taxpayers.


And just for the record, so you can move on to greener pastures for your goal posts, Musk and SpaceX (and maybe some insurance companies) bear all costs for any failed rocket attempt.

And now I've dumbed this down so far an embryo could understand, but please, continue screaming into the wind.

I’ve never had the burning urge to visit a TESLA dealership.

I've waited for you to walk down this gang plank until you fell head first into the water and you did. I knew I could count on you. Now I'll try to dumb this down for you though I still think you'll flail around in the water until you drown. Let's follow the money, shall we?

The government has emission standards. Auto companies who do not comply with those standards pay penalties. Those penalties are collected by the federal government. That is income of of the federal government the same way tax money paid to the federal government is.

In turn you claim that money which belongs to the federal government, not auto makers nor anyone else, then being given out to EV manufactures is not a subsidy? That's no less than a bait and switch con game.

Your claim is that money collected and under federal authority being in turn handed out by that same federal government is not a subsidy. A child of four can see thought that.

Hmm, more lies and fake news. Surprise, surprise. You've walked yourself off the plank and are drowning in your own b.s.... aka Monday.

None of this money is ever paid to the government, it's paid directly to Tesla by other automakers. So no, still not subsidies, still not tax dollars. You can try smoke, mirrors and magic wands next, still won't be subsidies.

I'd explain how the whole thing works, but you would either not understand or tell more lies. Dumbed-down version: It was a program created to reward automakers with low emissions and punish those with high emissions. It was said to be more effective because companies would be rewarding their competition. This would help us, you know, save the planet. That (saving the planet) has been scrapped so we can set fire to all the electric cars instead.

None of this money comes from taxpayers? BUT I thought every dime the government spends comes from YOUR tax dollars? Make it make sense…

What he said.

In trumplandis Tesla equals "all the electric cars"? Did they tell you that on Twitter?

If I’m gonna spend a fortune buying an EV, I want one with bolted on body parts, not glued. Cyber Truck bumpers are peel and stick like a weird ikea decor.

At least I know I'm done mopping the floor now.

To me, musk is inextricably linked to tesla and space x. Apologies, if you needed a more exact and specific breakdown. I was and I still am on my phone.

I think you're plenty smart enough to figure it out and would prefer to play semantics. Fair enough.


Not sure if you read the article, but that is where the fifteen billion i quoted initially came from.

Bottom line is that musks, companies have received a lot of subsidies. Specifically in relation to tesla, tesla has had significantly more subsidies than its chinese competitor BYD. Of course that is subject to belief, trust that the chinese number is correct.

Yes I quoted your own post and it was me who moved the goal posts.



The government set up a program to reward EV makers by punishing fossil fuel manufactures but it wasn't a subsidy put in place by the government. You left some muddy footprints in your mop job.

Now you know those tax credits weren't handed out by the government. You know, tax money that would have otherwise been collected had the government not handed them out.

It's not semantics at all. I read your article... the "16B is subsidies" was a hyperlink to another article that then called them "incentives" and posted this (chart does not expand when you click on it, website is run by liberals, go figure ):





You call it semantics, I call it disingenuous b.s.

Nevermind the BILLIONS of actual taxpayer money given to other US automakers to convert plants to electric. But we can't talk about that, that's actual apples to apples. Instead we'll talk about subsidies China gave to it's auto manufacturers?? C'mon man.

Wrong again. It's also not tax money that would have been collected. More lies and fake news.

I've heard of participation trophies and all, but what league let's you stand in the batter's box and keep swinging after 17 strikes? The Pit@Dawgtalkers League, that's who. Here's another one straight down the middle for you to foul off your foot and blame the pitcher. What next? Should we talk about rockets again?

The government chose rather than to collect those penalties themselves they would be distributed elsewhere. It was all set up by the government. All of your double talk doesn't change that. Without the government setting this all up to redistribute the money rather than collect the penalty they chose to use those funds as subsidies. The government made a choice to set up a big giveaway program to EV makers which they could in turn sell rather than collect the money imposed by those penalties on fossil fuel auto manufactures.

I will give you credit that your mental gymnastic skills are well honed.

Only Pit can be like "Whu-wu-wu-wu-wu-wu-wu-what happened was..." for pages on end and never be embarrassed. 🤣

You just refuse to admit that the government made a redistribution of wealth which resulted in billions in subsidies for EV makers. That's not a me issue. None of your idiotic memes can change that.

It was the government that granted this money in credits be doled out to EV makers.

Subsidy - a sum of money granted by the government or a public body to assist an industry or business so that the price of a commodity or service may remain low or competitive.

The government granted these credits be award to EV makers.

Well, if call the financial assistance "help", maybe that will clarify the situation? And thats' really not that big of a deal, one way or the other. Not for me anyway, and we can compare subsidies to any other us car manufacturer. Absolutely fine by me. The thrust of the article was that another e v carmaker is apparently far, exceeding the technical capacity of Tesla. And That must surely have an impact on stock price.

And as I pointed out at the very beginning, the article is an opinion piece. I have zero capacity to authenticate technical capacity, charging speex and ability or overall quality of either vehicle.

Now it's a "a redistribution of wealth".

The government did not "grant money". These funds go directly from automakers to other automakers. You've reframed this 50 different ways and still sound absurd. Have Kamala draw you a Venn diagram and call it a day.

Permission for this to happen was granted by the government. The program was approved and granted by the government. Setting it up was granted. Granted doesn't mean the government paid for it. So you don't call taking money from one part of an industry and giving to another part of that same industry a redistribution of wealth? All of your snarkiness changes none of that.

No, I wouldn't call it that, neither would anyone else.

Just so we're on the same page now, you willing to walk back all this b.s., fantasy and lies that you posted when you said you were "walking me down a plank" to show how dumb I was??



Just about the only thing resembling fact there is "the government has emission standards".

True story, I did visit the Tesla Dealership on Mayfield Road. They told me that they didn't have a car I could test drive. I said do you have one I can sit in... NO, we don't.

I walked out the door,, Never came back.. My dislike for Tesla didn't just start when I watched as Musk basically bought the President of the United States. It started when I went to look at one to perhaps buy it,,,, And I couldn't even test drive one.

I was done with them at that moment.

I did.

The Model Y is perfect size for me and the fam. Fate, DL05, and I were riffing on the EV push ~ 1 year ago (simpler times...).


I ended up passing on Tesla's and was looking hard at the Hyundai EV's before buying an ICE car (Ford Maverick). I occasionally regret not getting an electric.