DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum QB purgatory: Path for Giants, Browns and five other teams to change their fate at NFL's most crucial position

This is kinda what I was getting at earlier.

The narrative is just weird to me. If you said we had the potential to end up back in purgatory, sure. To say we "absolutely ARE", that seems to completely trivialize what purgatory is for me. I see the potential to go either way. Personally, it feels more likely to land on the good outcome than the bad. But again, how we're categorizing good/bad differs. To me, 0-12 type seasons are purgatory. I don't see us being worse than 7-9ish. I see us more in the 10+ wins area, with the potential to go all the way. Calling that purgatory didn't compute for me.

Where you ARE is present tense. Where you may or may not be going is irrelevant to where you are. Where you may or may not end up in no way reflects where your location is. And in this case where you are going is purely speculative. Where the Browns ARE is not.

Yeah, your interpretation of where the Browns "ARE" (at least the arguments that have been made in this thread in writing) is based on the past not the present. If the tense is the logic you want to use, where you were isn't where you are no matter how many times you and others bring up the past. It's a loser of an argument, logic-wise.

If you want to define purgatory as having Watson as the team's QB, whatever, have at it. That is your prerogative.

A QB room of Watson, Winston, Huntley, and DTR isn't what we had last year. We're somewhere different now. Winston and Baker's career stats are pretty comparable. link Jameis is our backup now. Our 3rd stringer made a Pro Bowl and has upside with 4 years experience. DTR is still a young guy to try to develop.

We're in a (seemingly) better place than we were last year, and we made the playoffs last year. Was Baker at QB purgatory? It's still unclear to me what purgatory is to you and others. Last year wasn't purgatory to me. The QB play was a bit of a rollercoaster, but actually pretty fun for a bit. It seems it was purgatory to you. How do you define purgatory?

You are where you are until you aren't.

I would think QB purgatory is having a QB and simultaneously looking for a QB. The Browns aren’t looking for a QB.

There’s only one QB in the league with a legit chance of winning a Super Bowl every year. Everyone else is hoping things break the right way for them.

IMO...QB purgatory is having a #1 QB who you do not think is "the guy"...but might be the guy...and yet you cannot move on from him...for whatever reason.

I'd say we are in QB purgatory the the moment.

However...the weather in this QB purgatory is much better than many others that we've experienced STR.

I'd use more limbo than purgatory for what you are describing, but that usage I can understand. The "do not think is 'the guy'" part is subjective. I can see that angle.

The whole you are what you have been forever until you aren't argument denies the reality of incremental change and reduces things to absolutes that seemingly aren't very useful. Sort of a perspective isn't reality, but your perspective can greatly impact your reality issue. If you see anything less than perfection as suffering, you're practically always going to be suffering. That doesn't seem like a recipe for a pleasant fandom to me.

If that's the way people want to look at it, fine. That's their choice. I just have a hard time figuring out why that's the choice they want to make.

To you and for anyone concerned, purgatory is a state of limbo. When you're caught in the middle not knowing factually in which direction you will go. Actually limbo is the perfect description of purgatory. It is the very opposite of an absolute.

Nobody knows which direction this will take. Some have their "thoughts and feelings" with which they would like to make such a determination but that's all they have. No matter how much one protests that's where things stand as of now.

That s neither a negative nor a positive. That's simply the way things stand at this time. The only thing that will determine if this turns out to be a negative or a positive is the future. And that will begin on Sept. 8th against the Cowboys.

Limbo and purgatory are two different things. Just saying.

Purgatory is associated with suffering.

QB Limbo makes more sense to me. That's why I wanted you to define your use of purgatory.

Purgatory is a place in which you can move on to heaven or hell. All of which is determined on what happens moving forward.

That's not what purgatory is, liturgically-speaking. Purgatory always results in Heaven according to Catholic canon.

If you're going to Hell, you go straight there. Purgatory is just a "stop" on the way to Heaven where souls are purified of their sins. The purifying of those sins requires expiation and suffering. Yet, if you get sent to purgatory, you never end up in Hell.



...the "benefits" of religious upbringing.... and being raised by a perfectionist. (Sorry)

Limbo works better in an "as defined" sense.

Well if you're going to believe the Catholics.

I actually though purgatory would work better for you since you seem so convinced watson will be our savior.

I don't think we need a savior at QB. I just don't think Watson's the Anti-Christ, either. I think we just need a Trent Dilfer level of play to compete at the highest level. Obviously, better than that would indeed be better.

I don't believe the Catholics, but that is the "definition" they use when speaking of Purgatory. Meaning something different than what a word represents when you use it doesn't change the definition of a word.

The need for "saviors" seems to be more your belief system than mine, but I've read the "literature."

This is why the trade is so disappointing to me. We already had that ^ - or better than that. Then gave up (3) years of valuable draft picks and a quarter billion to get...so far...less than that. It's just another reason why the trade was a failure and a very bad decision IMO.

In this QB context, I think limbo and purgatory mean the same thing. At a Bible study? No...as you pointed out. In a way, QB purgatory would (as you described it) be better. It would mean that if we keep doing the right things (otherwise...and which we pretty-much are) then experiencing heaven is just a matter of time.

Some people seem opposed to expecting a product that's commensurate with the compensation paid.

I think it's sad that you think all we need from watson is "Trent Dilfer level of play". But it's a sign of the times we live in these days. Overpay and expect a far lesser product than you paid for and be happy with it. Since you used Christ in your example, you don't pay for a Christ and settle for a Judas.

As far as the purgatory verses limbo debate you're right. Limbo is the better word for it. I was just yanking your chain on the "trusting a Catholic" post.

The "to compete" does a lot of work in the sentence you're truncating. Watson could give us a lot better than Trent Dilfer level of play. That would be ideal. It also shouldn't be that "hard." There is no accounting for injuries, though.

I never said anything about being happy with Trent Dilfer level of play. That's your imaginative re-interpretation of my words into something you think is a bad argument, which it would seem to be, if someone had made it.

We could win a lot of games even if Watson plays at a Trent Dilfer level. I hope he'll play much better than that. I think he should.

I'm not saying we should be happy with poor play. I'm saying he could still play great. We're paying for more years. It's ongoing. It's not done and over with. He can still "earn it."

Pretty sure Jesus wouldn't take your money. I think he took payment in bread and fish. Why would he need money when he could turn water into wine and raise the dead?

I am curious to see what tune you sing if Watson "rises from the dead," after you and others have been burying him. (there is definitely an "if" in there)

Why are you lying? My hope is he lives up to the level of pay which he was paid to do. And all along I've stated that the story is yet to be written. I've stated that there's three years left on his contract before we can say what the end result will be. The problem I see is people trying to write a story before it is written.

That's the entire meaning of being in limbo. Somewhere in between with the answer not yet being known.

He'll either end up playing to the level he was paid to play or he won't. Time will tell. Trent Dilfer level isn't what he is being paid to perform like.

Lying? I used an "if," a dancing banana and a smiley sticking its tongue out.

At least now you're using limbo.

He actually is being paid to play at a Superbowl winning QB caliber. If the Dilfer level is all Watson has to do to win a championship, I'm guessing Haslam will consider it money well spent.

I think if you look at SB winners over the last decade a Dilfer like QB isn't going to win you a SB.

...Nick Foles won a Super Bowl.

Just got to go on a heater at the right time. Just can't fall off it at the wrong time. (See Flacco, Joe.)

It seems as though the Browns agreed that a Dilfer level QB wouldn't do the job or they wouldn't have given up all that draft capital and a 230 mil. guaranteed contract to get watson. But keep up the good, or not so good fight as the case may be. Any time someone pays for a Porsche and ends up with a Kia they aren't happy and that Kia will never perform like a Porsche. The only question left to answer is did they get the Porsche they paid for or not.

I see a lot of debate about the definition of 'Purgatory'.... that was the term from the article and I get it.

I guess if we need another debate about DW and the state of the Browns QB situation ... this part of Purp's post nails it. Based on performances on the field - the Browns are not on the Cusp of QB heaven.

We need things to improve, we need levels of play and execution to improve. They easily could, despite what some want to imply I think we all want that to happen ... but stating that it's a forgone conclusion or even assuming it is probable is not accurate though. You may as well say every team in the NFL is on the cusp of QB heaven.