This is the most asinine thing I've read on here. You're giving Jimmy too much credit.
I guess you don't read many posts around here then.
I read plenty.
On one hand you're telling me this was the plan all along. To hire a "real" GM after Sashi made the job more desirable.
On the other hand I have posters here telling me it was well known that Hue was told this wasn't a teardown and Sashi jobbed him.
Both scenarios cannot be true. Ive been around here long enough to know I trust more what you say than others, however this whole thing doesn't make sense.
And even if it is true, Haslam fired the wrong guy first because even a door bell could tell you Hue was an awful coach his first two seasons.
I don't know that I can give credit to Jimmy here. I think it would be much more plausible if Sashi went to a frustrated Jimmy and offered to do the deed. Saying to give him a chance and if it doesn't work out he'll at least have the browns in a better, more desirable position if it doesn't.
A lot of things just don't add up with what you're saying. Not saying you're wrong, just saying it doesn't make a whole of sense.
I gotta disagree bro .... from day 1 i always thought of Sashi, Depo and Berry like this ....
I always pictured them at the conference room table and the intros going sumptin like this ...
If you could just stop to think for a bit, you could see that the other side-points make much more sense than yours, and were actually validated by what happened.
The problems was never that the Business guys didn't understand football, THAT's WHY THEY ARE THE BUSINESS/Management GUYS
The problem was that our FOOTBALL GUYS WERE BAD, really really BAD. Scouts and coaches were bad, overvalued personnel.
On the other hand I have posters here telling me it was well known that Hue was told this wasn't a teardown and Sashi jobbed him.
Both scenarios cannot be true. Ive been around here long enough to know I trust more what you say than others, however this whole thing doesn't make sense.
Hue was not told this was going to be a complete teardown when he was hired.
Quote:
A lot of things just don't add up with what you're saying. Not saying you're wrong, just saying it doesn't make a whole of sense.
It doesn't matter if it makes sense to me, you, or anybody else. I am just telling y'all what was going on bro.
I appreciate the insights you share. For some it seems an inconvenient truth of sorts that upsets them. Not the wanted narrative? Cherry picking among posters?
Regardless, though I try to support Browns and organizational management, we seemed to be carrying Hue and ignoring his lack of progress, apparently honoring snappy explanations in PR pressers. Just not a good place for wins. Some of the nonsense left with those two. I hope Dorsey gets the Haslams a winner.
I like the Japanese business focus I have heard for years: "Don't fix blame. Fix problems." Seems wise, viable, and worthy for the Browns as we re-cast ourselves.
Thanks, GM. You are probably tired of all this positivism.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
It's only two games, but frankly, I'm liking Williams and Kitchens.....
If this level of excitement continues (and I think it will), we may have our HC and OC on staff already.
Exactly^.
Wow, after reading above of Plutos article or something, I think the Browns might actually be looking for a "different" head coach from outside of the team?
HEY MORON'S HAVEN'T YOU LEARNED ANYTHING FROM THE LAST 13 YEARS?
Getting a different coach from outside of the Browns who will blow up the roster and schemes and asistants, is exactly the WRONG MOVE!
Y'ALL FINALLY got the badness off your team by Firing Jackson, and now you want to take everything you've built (but he ruined, imo)
and dismantle it. AGAIN! AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!
After you've seen this show play out several times going back to Mangini +Kokinis or before,
In all seriousness,
You need to give "What's his name" the rest of this year and all of next year at least, and I personally feel you should give Him 2.5 years, same as ya gave Jackson, just for the sake of continuity, and building a team identity.
Eventually, the team should keep its "big shots" (Gm, HC, Oc, DC,) and promote from within.
I hope the Haslem's read ^ this.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
Mac, people should take a look in to another mid season coaching change.
somewhere around 1997-1999, the Bengals gave Bruce Coslet, iirc, the mid season gig, over Dave Shula, or? iirc, ,
They had decent success for the finish of the season, better than expected, and he came back for the next year and the team did poorly, and he was gone by that next years end.
And I remember somewhere around that situation, the commentators making a point that in the history of the NFL, most times a mid season interim HC comes in, (there was case after case), that the following year, they all were had bad records and fired.
( But of course, none of them were 1-15 or 0-16,) and none of them had Mayfield at QB.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
He is well aware that this decision will be a defining moment.
He has been in the league a long time. He is well connected and informed.
He will do everything within his power to get this decision right.
He knows what he is looking for and knows that he must be able to work well with the person he hires.
I am quite sure he has his list and guys he is already leaning toward. But he will go through the planned process. He will conduct the interviews. And if someone leaves a lasing impression and wins the interview; that will be his guy.
Anything short of a Super Bowl victory, Williams is most likely gone.
I think bounty gate ended GW's chances of being a Head Coach.
We have a young franchise QB that seems to love Williams. (see the locker room scene after the Falcons game, See the Mayfield Mic'd up when they talk)
I'm sticking with my original thought, if they do well for the rest of this season, he's the guy and Kitchens stays as OC and the new DC will be Williams son.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Unfair judgment coming: If this new pair had been able to call the earlier games, we would have a few more wins IMO. Not sure what TT would do in the re-mix described. But the fact that he struggled as a vet says something about the early caliber of the team's play as planned.
Point is, I like the game I am seeing in the last two, the chemistry, the improvement. And these two are settling into biggest roles and succeeding. I want to see more from them with a healthy group. Blowing it up and throwing them out (again) is like drawing to an inside straight which we have screwed up plenty often. I might postpone the search awhile if these guys are winning and the Browns are playing hard. A new "flavor of the day" coach is not a guarantee. Is Dorsey so totally at odds with guys who have won some?
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
I appreciate the insights you share. For some it seems an inconvenient truth of sorts that upsets them. Not the wanted narrative? Cherry picking among posters?
Regardless
Thanks, GM. You are probably tired of all this positivism.
Not so fast teach ... did u really think your gonna take those shots at me and not expect cannon fodder back ... ...
U seem like a great guy and i have the utmost respect for u .. but u just asked me to dance .. and i have NO PROBLEMS DANCING in instances like this ... so i accept your invite ... lets dance teach ...
- So i am adamant that Riley would be as INCOMPOTENT a hire as Sashi was ... well almost anyhow ... *L* ...
- gm comes and tells me i’m an inpatient idiot and have no clue ..
- then I had the AUDACITY to ask him why i was an inpatient idiot ...
- he gave me an answer that didnt make sense to me ...
- well being the moron i am I asked him god forbid ... ANOTHER QUESTION ... now granted that was laced with condensation and was a question i all ready knew the answer to .. none the less it was a question ... *L* ...
Sorry teach ... i’m Gonna QUESTION THINGS when they don’t make sense ... a lesson i would be STUNNED if you didn’t each your kids to emulate ...
PS. Did u miss the part where i thanked him for all he’s done in the past ... crud teach i even asked if i could get in on his super secret pm list for the real juicy stuff ... *L* ....
I also said something seemed OFF ON THIS PARTICUALR bit of info he was told ...
PSS. THIS SOUNDS OFF TO ME ...
GM said the following in different posts:
- Sashi was hired to tear the team down .. i think to the “studs” or sumptin to that affect were his exact words .... and to clear as much cap space as possible ...
- TWO WEEKS LATER (gm didnt say that but its relevant here) the thief hired Hue ...
- after telling me about WHY Sashi was hired ... GM tells device that when Hue was hired he was NEVER TOLD IT WAS A COMPLETE RE-BUILD ...
UMMMMM ... that would make it clear even to this idiot that SOMETHING WAS AMISS ...
Either GM was given bad info or there was a mis communication between him and his source(s) ... this sounds like the bits of info may have come from different sources .. i have no clue how many folks GM has chummed up with .. but i would be shocked if it wasn’t around a handful(how’d the idiot do on that one gm ... ... and i know u didnt call me an idiot .. its just more fun that way ... *L*) ...
OR
- the thief is an EVEN BIGGER POS than i though .. and trust me ... that bar was INCHES FROM THE CEILING and it isn’t the glass one ...
Thanks for the dance Teach ...
Best wishes for a great turkey day for u and yours Bard .... and THANKS FOR EDUCATING OUR YOUNG ... (i think i remember reading your wife was a teacher also .. thanks to her also ... even if she wasn’t thank her for putting up with u .. .... ) ...
I’ll leave with a positive thought ... it reminds me of what the great Warren Buffet said (and for those that just think hes a money maker .. u know SQUAT ABOUT THE PERSON ... GREAT GUY ... ) ...
I think this quote may have come from a Berk-Hath shareholders meeting but am not sure ... and this isn’t the exact quote ... i dont feel like going and digging it up ..
He’s worked in an economy that
- rewards soldiers that give there lives protecting us with medals ...
- rewards a great teacher with thank a u letter from parents ...
- but rewards folks that find mispriced stocks with billions ...
The man had perspective among other great human qualities ... this was a good dude ...
Thanks for taking care of our kids Bard ... hope u have or had a great turkey day sir ...
He is well aware that this decision will be a defining moment.
He has been in the league a long time. He is well connected and informed.
He will do everything within his power to get this decision right.
He knows what he is looking for and knows that he must be able to work well with the person he hires.
I am quite sure he has his list and guys he is already leaning toward. But he will go through the planned process. He will conduct the interviews. And if someone leaves a lasing impression and wins the interview; that will be his guy.
Williams will get his shot.
Williams was hired before Dorsey, by the Haslems.
What makes anybody think this is the decision of anyone else but the Haslems?
Unless expressed by the Haslems that anyone else is behind any decision, of this caliber, I'll believe it's them behind it.
Unfair judgment coming: If this new pair had been able to call the earlier games, we would have a few more wins IMO. Not sure what TT would do in the re-mix described. But the fact that he struggled as a vet says something about the early caliber of the team's play as planned.
Point is, I like the game I am seeing in the last two, the chemistry, the improvement. And these two are settling into biggest roles and succeeding. I want to see more from them with a healthy group. Blowing it up and throwing them out (again) is like drawing to an inside straight which we have screwed up plenty often. I might postpone the search awhile if these guys are winning and the Browns are playing hard. A new "flavor of the day" coach is not a guarantee. Is Dorsey so totally at odds with guys who have won some?
Not sure that when it's all said and done, that TT is even in the same league as Mayfield...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
He is well aware that this decision will be a defining moment.
He has been in the league a long time. He is well connected and informed.
He will do everything within his power to get this decision right.
He knows what he is looking for and knows that he must be able to work well with the person he hires.
I am quite sure he has his list and guys he is already leaning toward. But he will go through the planned process. He will conduct the interviews. And if someone leaves a lasing impression and wins the interview; that will be his guy.
Williams will get his shot.
Williams was hired before Dorsey, by the Haslems.
What makes anybody think this is the decision of anyone else but the Haslems?
Unless expressed by the Haslems that anyone else is behind any decision, of this caliber, I'll believe it's them behind it.
I thought Jackson Hired williams... wasn't Sasha Brown still here as well?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
It's Sashi Brown, and the point is, why would we assume someone who has been with the team less months, (Dorsey), has more pull with the Owner, and or exclusive team direction reins over someone who has been with the team more months, (Williams), when all along it seems the Haslems are still pulling the strings and have final say.
The question is, Is it Dorsey or the Haslems?
Now I'll take in to account a small two hour period where Al Saunders was named new HC, and a time when Hue was gone but Haley not yet,
So what happened? I don't know, nobody knows, but I'll just assume when push comes to shove the Owner says I'm the Owner and everyone else falls in line.
So, Until I hear The Haslems express someone else is making the decision(s).
And Besides, There's no law that says they can't all be in agreement anyway. (Dorsey, Haslems, Williams, others,)
I think Williams is looking like a better head coach that defensive coordinator.
I have been very impressed with Williams, the HC.
If the team finishes strong I wouldn't mind sticking it out with Williams and Kitchens. Maybe Kitchens is an offensive innovator. We still don't know much about him.
With a strong finish I also wouldn't mind Arians - Williams - Kitchens.
The team has a different vibe and feel to it. No drama, plenty of affirmation the team was eager to get back to work and play more games. The team still believe these games are meaningful with 6 to go. You have to give Willaims credit for that.
Btw, anyone hear Baker's comments on Jackson yesterday? Yikes. Talk about the opposite of a ringing endorsement. If you haven't I urge you to watch his presser from yesterday.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
Btw, anyone hear Baker's comments on Jackson yesterday? Yikes. Talk about the opposite of a ringing endorsement. If you haven't I urge you to watch his presser from yesterday.
Btw, anyone hear Baker's comments on Jackson yesterday? Yikes. Talk about the opposite of a ringing endorsement. If you haven't I urge you to watch his presser from yesterday.
I did get to watch it yesterday... Love listening to Baker talk..He talks about two Jacksons..
On:
Hue : Question ?
Quote:
On if Jackson’s familiarity with the Browns’ system and personnel gives the Bengals a significant advantage:
Bakers answer " NO ! Just NO ! "
Lamar :
Quote:
On if emphasizing running the ball in general this week:
Bakers answer “We always try to run the ball, but not with me. I am not the athlete that [Lamar Jackson] is. I would love to do that, but that is God given talent that I do not have."
Dorsey has made some interesting comments about Williams, Freddie and Blake recently. This doesn't have the lip service vibe when he is talking improvement in practice quality, attention to detail, game planning.
Dorsey could have promoted Haley, supposedly Dorseys guy but he didn't he went with Greg the the league banned,
My beef with u was solely with the Ried/Riley thing .. no need to re-hash it .. waste of time ..
We disagreed on the Riley thing ... if u still think hes a viable candidate we disagree ... i dont see anyone with 2 years of HC experience AND/OR zero experience in the nfl ... just thought of this ... not only as a coach but as a player also .. he has literally zero nfl experience ...
U said u weren’t educated on him ... well now that u are as far as his lack of experience in the nfl or as length of time as a HC ... do u still think he’s a viable candidate ... your opinion ... not what u will do if we hire him .. if we hired hue back we know you’d find a positive spin on it somehow ... *L* ...
I have NO CLUE what Dorsey will do ... NONE ..
I dont want McCarthy .. would not be happy and would be vocal about it ... but i’d Understand it ... Riley i would not understand ... u may not agree with it .. but can u see my angle on it?
Her is my POINT in a nutshell Diam. If...that is a big "IF" but I trust in Dorsey on the analysis. "IF" Riley is a Football genius I could care less about his experience. In my eyes it TRUMPS all the experience in the world. Cause Experience is gained...GENIUS is something that just does not come around often. That is my point I'm looking at Dynasty here. Well that is my thought process, I know I'm right. What I do not know is "IF" Riley is a true football genius.
The only other thing I have an issue with is the constant "THIEF" thing. He made a MAJOR and I mean MAJOR!!! move in obtaining Dorsey. At the right time and right place and he is not micro managing.
He the thief personally wanted to keep HUE but he went with his GM, Dorsey, backing his decision 100% and fired Hue and Haley.
I think Haslam is evolving into a VERY good Owner for us. Regardless of the cute moniker you give him to be an insult, I think its sort of funny is you talk about something he did GREAT and then throw in the word Thief like that some how undoes the great thing he just did...lol
So in a nutshell. I want Riley here "IF" he's a football genius to be determined by Dorsey who is the Man In Charge!
I could care less how much Experience he has. Genius is not a common thing, experience is. And I'd rather have Genius without experience Than Mediocre with a lot of Experience - a.k.a like getting a Pat Shurmur.
Thief...don't care what you call him but he made a GREAT move in picking up Dorsey when he did. Also he gave way to his EGO and his Football guy wanted his choice of HUE gone...he went gone!
The team is moving in the right direction.
I really like right now 1 of two things. I like the HC Williams and OC Kitchens, so much so that I wish continuity with both of them.
"IF" Riley is a true Football genius then I want him here.
Thats my honest opinion and I gave the logic that I have behind it.
jmho and nothing more.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Football has been around a long time now. The game has seen many great football minds.
Nobody is going to revolutionize the game. Nobody is going to do anything that has not been done before.
Coaches learn from what has been done before. Then over time they may enhance or add their signature.
But I don't believe in genius. Belichick and Parcells are not geniuses.
Great coaches bring organization and the ability to teach and lead. They get the most out of each player. They teach them how to be prepared. How to react from muscle memory that comes from practice.
They prepare teams with great game plans. Then adjust as required.
I don't think they reinvent football. Or bring some magic formula.
To me having the ability to lead men and being able to adjust your game plan to exploit your opponents weaknesses are the biggest key ingredients in a HC. Genius is not required to do those things.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
It's Sashi Brown, and the point is, why would we assume someone who has been with the team less months, (Dorsey), has more pull with the Owner, and or exclusive team direction reins over someone who has been with the team more months, (Williams), when all along it seems the Haslems are still pulling the strings and have final say.
The question is, Is it Dorsey or the Haslems?
Now I'll take in to account a small two hour period where Al Saunders was named new HC, and a time when Hue was gone but Haley not yet,
So what happened? I don't know, nobody knows, but I'll just assume when push comes to shove the Owner says I'm the Owner and everyone else falls in line.
So, Until I hear The Haslems express someone else is making the decision(s).
And Besides, There's no law that says they can't all be in agreement anyway. (Dorsey, Haslems, Williams, others,)
Spelling police... geez
Haslams hired Dorsey to be the GM. The GM generally sources candidates for coaching and Player personnel and scouting positions.
Will a HC and OC and DC be hired without input by the owner? I doubt it. Of course the Haslams still probably have to give the thumbs up on who's hired.
But for anyone to assume that the Haslams will do the search and make all decisions after seeing what a great job stocking the team that Dorsey has done is crazy at best.
IMO, Dorsey will source the candidates, interview them, pick the one he wants and run it past the Haslams.
That's it.
And again, if we keep playing like we did in the Falcons game, I would hope that Williams and Kitchens get the nod.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Did you ever notice that the term "star" has become irrelevant? "Star" use to carry some weight. Now it just means someone on TV. So genius in regards to an NFL coach, not really. lets save that for scientists and doctors and such.
Football has been around a long time now. The game has seen many great football minds.
Nobody is going to revolutionize the game. Nobody is going to do anything that has not been done before.
Coaches learn from what has been done before. Then over time they may enhance or add their signature.
But I don't believe in genius. Belichick and Parcells are not geniuses.
Great coaches bring organization and the ability to teach and lead. They get the most out of each player. They teach them how to be prepared. How to react from muscle memory that comes from practice.
They prepare teams with great game plans. Then adjust as required.
I don't think they reinvent football. Or bring some magic formula.
They are simple good at coaching players.
Bill Walsh, genius. Paul Brown, genius. Vince Lombardi, genius. Bill Belichick, genius. Each brought his own innovations and/or approach to the game, seeing football in a way no one had ever seen before, and devising ways to implement clear advantages over their opponents and winning multiple championships along the way. Just my two cents.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski
"Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield
Even geniuses NEED EXPERIENCE ... Warren Buffet didn’t start out at Berk - Hath he worked his way THERE ... GAINED EXPERIENCE and LEARNED HIS CRAFT each step of the way ... u want a genius to work out ... LET HIM LEARN HIS TRADE and gain the valuable experience at the OTHER ASPECTS of the job he may not be a GENIUS AT ... u don’t throw him to the top rung WITHOUT HIM LEARNING THE ROPES ...
We are just gonna disagree on this one .. it’ll be over soon ... maybe next hire we can go get your “potential genius” ... ...
As for the THIEF ... u wanna hash it out ... LOGIC IS ON MY SIDE 100% ... just look at the timing of the events and he was FORCED to fire Sashi ...
- hes forced to fire Sashi ... - king john was UNEMPLOYED and just waiting til the off season .. - this was a GM’s DREAM JOB ... DREAM JOB minus the moronic owner .. cap space ... check .. draft picks - BEST EVER ... quantity, quality ... BEST EVER ...
but this job was a GMS WET DREAM and u know it ... just like its all coaches WET DREAM this off season unless McVie or Payton or Reid get fired .. *LOL* ..
- then Sashi was fired ... Dorsey became the BIGGEST NO BRAINER EVER and the THIEF backed into him ...
Not gonna re-hash this .. THIS MUCH GOOD GOING ON ... u wanna go down that rabbit hole ... cause its u ... i’ll Give u one more reply and then i’m Done here ...
I’d rather talk about ALL THE GOOD ... sheesh bro ... we’ve fought over our teams outlook since day 1 on this board ... now were argue over this when we can have FUN CONVOS about where were heading ...
The THIEF (and he wil always be the THIEF TO ME ... that problem ain’t gonna EVER END unless u wake up and pay attention to the facts ..... its not a cute little moniker ... dude SCAMMED MILLIONS ... a mob dude from LI who invented the ORIGINAL “oil” scams back in the 70’s was from your neck of the woods ... the thief learned well ... he’s a THIEF ... if u paid attention and dug a little you’d know this ... and its OK that u don’t ... most don’t ...)
The THIEF backed into Dorsey ... evolved ... ...
Were just have to agree to disagree on this one ... i will ALWAYS call a THIEF a THIEF ... weather its my best friend or my least favorite person on the face of the earth don’t CHANGE THE FACTS ...
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
... 
... and i know u didnt call me an idiot .. its just more fun that way ... *L*) ... 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg)