The whole team does need to play better. There did seem to be a more crisp feel when McCown was in the game, 3 or 5 steps, plant, ball comes out... but it's not the 1s on 1s.. it's a bunch of back-ups.. so who knows.
Plus, this was Coleman and Gordon's first game so it's hard to tell who was in the right place and how their timing is together. It's going to be a learning process. I'm frustrated, I want to win... but I'm willing to give it a chance to come together..
We no. Oh no...please don't..that's not it at all. We're getting sacked....One of our goals is for our QB not to get hit like that. I don't think Robert was back there holding the ball too long or anything like that looking for more then what was there. I think sometimes things weren't there then all of sudden someone fell off somebody and we didn't do a good enough job
I believe that it's an easy conclusion to reach that throwing the ball away is better than taking sacks even if nobody is open. And there is evidence that was being worked on in training camp.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I think there is something wrong or being missed if the focus of the conversation about the offense in the Bucs preseason game centers around whether or not Griffin was holding the ball too long (in essence causing sacks) without mention of the OL pass protection and the penalties.
You will probably blow off this article, too......but I'll try anyway. This is about RGIII's time in Washington. I'll just post part of the article, but you can click the link if you would like to read the entire thing.
Quote:
It would be tempting to blame the offensive line any time a quarterback gets sacked that often, but in Griffin’s case it would be incorrect. Washington’s other two quarterbacks, Colt McCoy and Kirk Cousins, weren’t sacked as often as Griffin. McCoy was sacked 17 times while throwing 128 passes, and Cousins was sacked eight times while throwing 208 passes.
No, the problem with Griffin is that he isn’t good enough at getting rid of the ball when he’s under pressure. Griffin has been sacked at least 30 times in all three of his NFL seasons despite never throwing more than 456 passes in a year. (For comparison with a passer who’s good at getting rid of the ball, Peyton Manning has never been sacked 30 times in any of his 16 seasons despite always throwing at least 453 passes.)
I think there is something wrong or being missed if the focus of the conversation about the offense in the Bucs preseason game centers around whether or not Griffin was holding the ball too long (in essence causing sacks) without mention of the OL pass protection and the penalties.
It's not an all or nothing proposition. Yes, sometimes you can blame the OL. Sometimes the QB doesn't throw the ball away when he should. This causes a loss of yards that wasn't necessary. Sometimes the QB can't process a WR coming open or being able to throw him open.
To try to advocate that all sacks are caused by one or the other, tries to paint an inaccurate, one sided story.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
The past is the past and I can't picture Cousins or noodle arm Colt McCoy throwing as many deep balls as RG3.
Yes, he was said to have that problem in the past. I haven't watched enough full games of him on the Redskins to get a good feel for the accuracy of that.
I'm not sure he's still holding the ball too long now, if he was before is somewhat irrelevant to me. What I want to know is is he getting better? I didn't see him holding the ball too long missing open receivers like some of the stills that had been posted a ways back. He may have, but it didn't seem like it to me live, and the broadcast view didn't always let me see the whole picture.
It's easy to revert to that narrative because we looked awful, but how much was really RG3? I can't really say yet.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
I think there is something wrong or being missed if the focus of the conversation about the offense in the Bucs preseason game centers around whether or not Griffin was holding the ball too long (in essence causing sacks) without mention of the OL pass protection and the penalties.
It's not an all or nothing proposition. Yes, sometimes you can blame the OL. Sometimes the QB doesn't throw the ball away when he should. This causes a loss of yards that wasn't necessary. Sometimes the QB can't process a WR coming open or being able to throw him open.
To try to advocate that all sacks are caused by one or the other, tries to paint an inaccurate, one sided story.
Read what I wrote again.
Which part of any of my post quoted above or any of my other posts about the offense and show me where I advocate that all sacks are caused by the OL? But on the flip side I can't point to a number of yours and other posts in this thread that only mention Griffin holding the ball.
What would you call it when a QB takes a sack rather than throwing the ball away? You see, holding the ball too long doesn't mean four or five seconds. It means having the ability to see defenders coming and get rid of the ball to avoid a sack.
I have no qualms saying that the OL isn't good. I've stated that it made no sense to sign RG3 and let linemen go. That he needs protection due to his injury history and protection to give him time to make the most of his greatest talent, the long ball.
It's my belief you see what you wish to see and ignore the rest. It's also my belief that as the season carries on, it will be much easier to see how defensive you get to make excuses for RG3 no matter what the circumstances. It's already evident for anyone willing to look at it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I think there is something wrong or being missed if the focus of the conversation about the offense in the Bucs preseason game centers around whether or not Griffin was holding the ball too long (in essence causing sacks) without mention of the OL pass protection and the penalties.
It all works together.. Griffin was sacked like 5 times?
First time on 3rd and 10 from the 16, we lost 1 yard and kicked a FG.. throwing the ball away nets the same result. Second time was 3rd and 11, we lost 2 yards.. punted. throwing the ball away nets the same result. Fourth time was on a 3rd and 15...
It's not like he was taking a lot of drive killing sacks on first down or getting us knocked out of FG range... hopefully he knows the difference.. and with each possession, we were further and further behind so I can't fault the guy for trying to make a play.
Let's not forget the two drive killing penalties from our RT. tough spot.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
You're right. You should have known I'd "blow off" old information that has no practical bearing on how he did last week when my entire premise was on not knowing whose fault something was last week. What does 3 years ago have to do with the particulars of what happened in our game against Tampa Bay?
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
What would you call it when a QB takes a sack rather than throwing the ball away?
Answering your rhetorical questions and engaging in what would only be a pseudo-objective discussion is silly to me. I've already tried to engage in discussing the game and what actually occurred on the sacks (and other plays) in specifics rather then in your broad strokes long ago.
You've made it clear that despite the HC, a third party objective source PFF, the commentator Phil Simms etc you've already decreed that Griffin was holding the ball so what's the point?
Originally Posted By: You
Originally Posted By: edromeo
First Series on Offense
o Crowell runs hard o Penalty OL o Gordon still has it, could shed some pounds o 1st and 10 RZ throw to Barnidge, didn't like the read/decision. Barndige didn't get open and iirc was covered by their Hargraves...looked to me like Griffin had the TE on a drag route from the right slot and had Coleman backside on in-route o Erving stacked into backfield on 2 & 10 in RZ o 67 Pastor RT beat immediately on 3rd and RZ o Griffin should throw the ball away
decent drive thwarted
It's my belief you see what you wish to see and ignore the rest. It's also my belief that as the season carries on, it will be much easier to see how defensive you get to make excuses for RG3 no matter what the circumstances. It's already evident for anyone willing to look at it.
Sure.
The above quote is from one of my first posts in this thread. Notice, I'm not, lol, 'ignoring the rest' because I'm actually posting about an entire series of plays, in subsequent posts I talk about the defensive series, got into a good and very timely discussion about Kruger and the edge rushers, 43 vs 34, possible 4-man front line-ups etc...etc...etc...
Btw, have you commented on anything other then Griffin holding the ball? Oh, I must have been too busy ignoring the rest to see them. Lol.
It all works together.. Griffin was sacked like 5 times?
First time on 3rd and 10 from the 16, we lost 1 yard and kicked a FG.. throwing the ball away nets the same result. Second time was 3rd and 11, we lost 2 yards.. punted. throwing the ball away nets the same result. Fourth time was on a 3rd and 15...
It's not like he was taking a lot of drive killing sacks on first down or getting us knocked out of FG range... hopefully he knows the difference.. and with each possession, we were further and further behind so I can't fault the guy for trying to make a play.
There were a couple of plays where I thought he had a chance to just take off from a collapsing pocket. But yeah, when/IF the plays or in this case the 'sacks' are looked at in more detail then a stat line or sound bite there is always more nuance.
I was saying this earlier...
Originally Posted By: edromeo
...There was sack iirc the 1st "sack" in the RZ where Griffin scrambled out of the pressure towards the sideline and one could argue that he should have thrown it out of bounds but he was trying to make a play and got back within ~yard of the LOS. Earlier I faulted him on the 'sack' but this is merely a stat sack more then an actual sack in my book.
I'm sorry that I want to talk about what happened in the game in a forum titled "Looking Back: Browns 13 Buccaneers 30" and not about the 2014 and earlier Washington Redskins.
If you want to re-hash that same article which you were linking all off-season, start a thread in Pure Football and maybe someone will want to go over it for the 50th time. I'm not one of them.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
There are times RG3 holds the ball and takes sacks because he doesn't throw the ball away. There are sacks caused by the OL. It's a combination of factors. To ignore any one of these factors is to close your mind to the big picture.
If that's your prerogative, so be it. But to act as if it didn't happen is much closer to what I expected from you. After all, you came here as an RG3 pimp and I'd say you'll always be a denier.
All in all he's performed pretty well. But there are still some remnants of his problems in Washington. Not saying they can't be fixed. However, it's obvious there's still work to do.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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