DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 9 Steelers 30 The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly

I heard the announcer blame Mack, but Mack was engaged w/another defender. It was Erving's man.

I know OL and I think you are dead wrong about the OL.

I think JM had a good game, but he does hold the ball way, way too long. He gets sacked and all the geniuses act like it's all the line's fault.

It's not!

He did hold the ball a bit long, but I'll take a few sacks if he is actually learning to go through the progressions and not instinctively take off at the first sign of pressure. He can get better at that.
Last season was lost. Consider him a 22-year-old rookie. Most of us would be pretty happy to have a kid who could throw for nearly 400 yards, complete 75% and look in control. For the season, his QBR is around 85.
I am not saying we don't need to draft a QB. But I AM saying we might not need to!

I didn't post that to knock Johnny. I posted it to defend the OL. Erving was terrible, but overall, the OL gave JM time to throw.

I think people are also forgetting that we always abandon the run. What do you think happens to most teams when they are trailing by two scores or more and they refuse to run the ball? It's amazing there were not a ton of sacks yesterday.

I would be interested to see one of those reports regarding how our OL played yesterday. I bet that other than Erving, most did a good job.

Oh, I know you weren't knocking Johnny, Vers. You've been clear-eyed and fair to him. Holding onto the ball a little too long was really about the only thing he did do wrong. I was just looking past that for a silver lining.

The running thing has got to be all scheme. Last year, with worse running backs (Crowell as a rookie and West vs. Crowell now and Johnson, plus a fullback), we ran relatively well. It can't be that our OL is worse -m it's healthy, deeper and more experienced. We do abandon it too soon, but we also junked that zone blocking scheme, which I don't pretend to understand, but just know that Shanahans always run successfully.

To be fair to our OL, McCown and Manziel hold the ball to long but that is their only excuse for anything. Bitonio deserved to be in the probowl last year and he has been as bad as Irving was yesterday. Mack and Thomas have not been close to their level.

You know what. I changed this post because I don't want to get into it with you. I love how you guys blow your own horns around here..Bla Bla Bla ..

In case you missed it, I didn't assign blame. I simply stated what I saw on the field. There could be a number of reasons for that. Was he drafted too high? Not coached properly? As ddub suggested, was he simply overwhelmed?

Unfortunately I don't have the answer to those questions. No matter where the blame belongs, that's what was displayed on the field.

So please stop with trying to believe you know my motives.

Sorry Pit, I apologize.

That is Ver's excuse for everything. He knows the oline, they're ok.

It's cool. I think most all Browns fans are a little stressed right now.

This is a statement you made earlier in the thread.



Now your little feelings are hurt because I responded to that aggressive and demeaning statement? Grab a tissue.

Do you see any irony at all in this statement of yours? If you don't, you're beyond help. Seriously.

well i will do a good one that i have not saw. it was nice to see a team bite on the play action so hard every time we did it.

Flattering yourself, and blowing your own horn again I see.

So if I'm dead wrong about the oline issues, what's the problem with the Oline unit them Oh Great Karnac?
.

Look, you made a statement about people not knowing OL. I did not insult you in my first response. I said I do know OL. That isn't bragging. It's a fact. I got my start in coaching by being the OL coach.

I pointed out that both McCown and Manziel occasionally hold the ball too long. There are stats that back that up. Again, it is not an opinion or tooting my own horn. It's a fact.

You freaked out because I challenged your opinion. Thus, I gave you a taste of your own medicine.

I have already addressed some of the issues w/the OL. I don't think you really wanna hear it, but I will try again.

--Both our qbs do hold the ball too long.

--We have given both qbs quite a bit of time to throw the ball on most plays.

--Our guys are more finesse blockers rather than power blockers. We ran more ZBS last year under Shanny. While Flip still runs some of that, he relies on more power blocking, where are guys don't do as well, especially in run blocking.

--Erving is weak. Hopefully, Bittonio will be back next week.

Once again, I would like to see the statistical grades that some of these sites do on OL play. I bet that the grades [other than Erving] were probably pretty high for the rest of our linemen. Does anyone have that information?

ProFootballFocus from the Pittsburgh game...

Cleveland Browns
– Although Johnny Manziel (+3.3) was sacked six times according to the official gamebook, Cleveland’s offensive line actually played really well and limited the pass rush of the Steelers’ defensive line. Of the six sacks, only one was really due to poor offensive line play—when Cameron Erving let Stephon Tuitt go by him. As a matter of fact, the only player on the Browns’ offensive line who graded out below +1.0 was Erving (-2.0), who started the first game of his NFL career. Consequently, Browns fans do not have to panic about the state of their offensive line, but rather about the performance of the other players who take part in avoiding sacks.

– Despite his fumble and interception, Johnny Manziel played the best game of his career. The fact that Manziel attempted 13 passes outside the right numbers compared to nine outside the left numbers shows the amount of times Cleveland rolled him out of the pocket, providing him easier reads; however, he was able to take advantage of the situation and find open receivers constantly. While Manziel still held onto the ball too long and struggled a bit under pressure, where he graded out at -0.2 compared to +2.4 from a clean pocket, he made a significant step forward in this game.

– While the final score would suggest that Cleveland did not play really well, the Browns did have some solid performances on the defense. Rookie Nate Orchard earned the highest grade (+2.9), despite being on the field for only 52.2 percent of Cleveland’s defensive snaps. Orchard did not record a single pressure while rushing the passer, however, he did bat down one of Ben Roethlisberger’s passes on a third down. He was solid in coverage, as well, as he allowed only one reception for two yards. His best work came in defending the run where he finished with two run stops on 17 run snaps that led to a run stop percentage of 11.8 percent, which was third most among 3-4 outside linebackers in the NFL in Week 10. Balanced performances like this will certainly earn more playing time for the former Utah Ute.

Top performers:

QB Johnny Manziel (+3.3)
OLB Nate Orchard (+2.9)
LT Joe Thomas (+2.9)
RT Mitchell Schwartz (+2.4)
ILB Craig Robertson (+2.4)

For the life of me i don't see how a team can run the ball 11 times for -2 yards, give up 6 sacks, and have everybody but one on the OL grade out positive.

Fair enough.

I didn't freak out. Erving was weak and undisciplined, I agree. A rookie in his first start. One start and you want to blow your own horn to justify you were right that Farmer made a mistake and a bad pick.

The entire offensive line hasn't played up to their usual standards. Actually they haven't been playing up to standards since last year when Mack went down. Finesse IMO would mean their disciplined and working with good chemistry. Their not.

Now, every QB will hold on too long at times waiting for the play to develop. It happens from time to time. But McCown and JM aren't looking like Weeden in that regard. And it's not the reason the oline is undisciplined looking bad.

The discipline, chemistry, penalties and bench depth of the oline is the reason I've made my previous statements.

It was obvious to me they were going to have these issues before the season started. So the reality for me is, I was correct. *Beep Beep*

Thanks ddub. That's the way I saw it, too. There were so many times when JM had all day to survey the field. I think that perhaps our receivers aren't getting open.

Gotta give steve some credit for giving props to Orchard.

I think Manziel is still learning to process the information quickly enough and trust his routes. He spent years in a college system where the guy was already open when you saw him and released the ball.. he's going to have to learn to throw before the guy breaks open...

He's showed improvement in that last week but still has a ways to go... .

I agree. Again, I am not saying that to knock JM. I am just defending the OL. They are not playing as bad as people are saying.

That is another good point. Crow is pretty darn good at picking up the blitz, but everyone else really struggles w/blocking. Dray is our best blocking TE, but he hasn't done squat in the passing game this year, thus his snaps are limited.

I truly believe that Crow plays more than Duke because he is much more dependable pass blocker.

What has Pettine done to earn another year? Name ONE thing he's GOOD at.... just one man.

He preached all off season about stopping the run and the result is last in the league. If I thought for a minute this guy could coach I'd agree to let him stick another year. But he hasn't shown me spit. Not ONE thing he's done has impressed me. He's supposed to be some defensive guru, but this defense is... well it's unacceptable. For this defense alone, Pettine should have been fired over the bye. THAT is how bad it is.